Cincinnati 5NW (Ronald Rothhaas Jr) - December was warm and slightly wetter than normal.  This having been said, December 2004 will go down in memory for one of the fiercest winter storms ever to hit the Cincinnati tri-state area.  On December 22-23 a near perfect winter storm set up over the Cincinnati tri-state.  Amazing amounts of moisture were pumped into the area with temperatures below freezing throuout the event.  Snowfall ranged from 31 inches about 50 miles northwest of here to 10.7 inches at my location.  To the east of the city the majority of the event was in the form of freezing rain with ice accumulations of 1 to 2 inches bringing down power lines and trees in many counties for Christmas.  At my location about 8 inches of snow was followed by 2 inches of ice pellets.  By morning ice pellets waterfalling off roofs had accumulated to 1 to 3 feet.  The icy snow was nearly impossible for road crews to remove due to its weight and the fact it formed into a solid mass when temperatures dropped to near zero.  Even some interstate lanes remained blocked for nearly a week causing many accidents.  The accumulation of 10.7 inches melted down to 2.42 liquid and set the stage for the worst flooding in decades in January.

Cleves 3NW (James Davis) - December ended up 1.5 degrees below normal with above normal precip.  i also set 6 record lows for the month and the 16.5" was the most snow for a storm with 14" on the ground.

Kent 2W (Eric Wertz) -  December 2004 was tranquil the first week but became active the remainder of the month.  The liquid equivalent precipitation for the month was 3.76", which was slightly above normal.  Snowfall was well above normal for the month at 21.6"  measurable precipitation was noted on 18 days with measurable snowfall observed on 10 days.  The heaviest 24 hour snowfall was 5.9" on the 22nd in conjunction with a major winter storm.  Considerable glaze was noted on the 22nd and 23rd causing several tree branches to come down along with a few power outages in the region.  Christmas Day was frigid with a morning low of -5.  Gale force windsgusting to 44 mph were observed on the 7th.

Kidron 1N (Ronald Hahn) -  Temperatures were barely above normal but precip was ~1" above normal.  For the year precip was 47.66" which was 8.54" above normal.  This was the 2nd consecutive year with precip above 45".  The ice storm of the 22,23rd was quite damaging in this area with many tree branches and trees downed.  Limbs fell on electric lines and knocked out power here from 2:26 am on the 23rd to 10:15pm on the 29th (a total of 163 hours and 49 minutes)!  Some people were out even longer.

Newcomerstown 1S (Don Keating)-  Average High, Low and Mean temperatures were all 0.5 or less above normal, making December 2004 basically a "normal" temperature month. However, the extremes wouldn't indicate that. There were four record high readings and one record low. Average wind gust per day was 18.2 mph.

Ottawa 4E (Phil & Bonnie Higley) As a whole we ended up below normal for the month, by 6F.  An we are still runnning behind normal for precip.,
0.36 for rainfall.  You compair this month with Dec. of 02,
we ended up with 29.5F for our ave. temp. compair what we had this yr. of 30F.  Snowfall was the same, about on the same date's.  This yr. it come on the 23rd & that year it come in on the 25th

Perrysville 4W (Katie Gerwig) The early part of the month was warmer than average and the first measurable snow was on the 13th.  Warm gulf air collided with a cold front to create a major winter storm on the 22nd and 23rd.  14.7" of snow fell over 2 days with a 0.5" layer of ice in between snow layers.  Christmas had a low of -14 in the morning and this was the coldest temperature of the year.  8.8" of snow on the 23rd was the heaviest snow of the year.

Ravenna 1SE (Gary Locke)  December was both wet and white month with the highlight being the snow and ice storm that hit the area on 12/22-12/23. 

Springfield (Dick Groeber) Snowfall on the 22nd and the 23rd totaled 14 inches. Melted to 2.14 inches water. Temperatures fell to -8 degrees on Christmas day. Temperatures rose to 52 degrees on New Years Eve melting most of snowpack.

Thompson 5SW (Vance Lunn)- December started out mild with only a couple light dustings of snow and a lot of fog.  Then it turned seasonbly to a little below seasonably cold, and ended with a couple more mild days.  The main highlight of the month were three large snowstorms.  From the afternoon of the 12th to the 15th, 30.3 inches fell from mostly lake-effect snow.  Another lake-effect system on the 19th-20th brought 13.2 inches, and the large synoptic storm of the 22nd-24th delivered 18.8 inches.  Only a few inches from this last storm was lake-effect.  24 hour amounts were:  15.7" (13-14), 14.2" (22-23), and 9.8" (19th).  72.7" of the month's 73.3" snow total came in the 2-1/2 week period from the 11th to the 27th.

Wooster 7N (Jack Sisler) December 2004 more than stood out for what Winter around here can be like. The highlight of the month was the combination snowstorm/icestorm on the 22nd and 23rd. The snowfall storm total was 8.7 inches with 3/8"-1/2" of ice accumulation. With the help of this storm December 2004 was the snowiest on record (17.8 inches) and produced two 24-hour snowfall records; 4.1 inches on the 14th and 5.7 inches on the 22nd. The storm gave power outages to much of the area, in some cases up to a week due to the heavy snow and ice accumulations on trees and power lines. I also established two record low temperatures of -4 on the 20th and -16 on the 25th. The record low on the 25th was the coldest it's been since January 19, 1994.


OWON # Station Mean Max Temp Mean Min Temp Mean Temp High Temp Date Low Temp Date Total Prec Max 24hr Prec Date


Prec Days

Total Snow Max 24hr Snow Date #  1"+ Snow Days Max Wind Gust Date
119 Akron 1W 37.9 24.4 31.2 62 7th -2 25th 3.56 1.47 22,23 17 20.3 4.5 22 6 21 7th
A Akron-Canton 37.2 22.8 30 63 7th -4 20th 2.4 0.77 30,1 17 17.8 4.1 19th 5 46 7th
82 Centerville 1W 39.8 23.6 31.7 66 7th -7 25th 3.36 1.3 23rd 8 15.8 9 22nd 2 50 7th
A Cincinnati 41.8 24.9 33.3 65 7th -2 24,25 2.8 0.99 22nd 13 10.4 6.8 22nd 2 46 7th
13 Cincinnati 5NW 43.9 26.9 35.4 66 7th 2 25th 3.77 2.42 22nd 14 12.5 10.7 22nd 2    
A Cleveland 38 24 31 63 7th -6 25th 4.47 1.96 22,23 18 35.1 9.4 22nd 5 62 7th
55 Cleves 3NW 42.7 23.8 33.2 68 7th -13 25th 3.93 2.51 22,23 12 17.7 16.5 22,23 3 40 7th
A Columbus 40.3 25 32.6 67 7th -1 25th 3.36 1.06 23rd 13 9.6 5.2 22nd 3 56 7th
A Dayton 38.5 23 30.7 62 7th -10 25th 1.62 0.53 22nd 11 17 11.5 22nd 2 55 7th
22 Kent 2E 38.4 23.4 30.9 64 7th -5 25th 3.71 0.87 23rd 18 19.3 5.5 22nd 7 27 7th
430 Kent 2W 37.2 22.2 29.7 60 7th -5 25th 3.76 0.88 23rd 18 21.6 5.9 22nd 9 44 7th
2 Kidron 1N 38.8 23.5 31.2 64 7th -3 25th 3.73 1.72 23rd 16 12.3 4.9 22nd 4 43 7th
87 Lagrange 2SW 37.9 21.8 29.9 63 7th -10 25th 3.25 1.06 22nd 16 24.3 12.3 22nd 5 47 7th
A Mansfield 36.2 21.3 28.7 62 7th -15 25th 3.01 1.5 22,23 15 28.7 15.2 22nd 4 54 7th
51 Middleburg Heights  2N               4.37 0.97 22nd 20 32 10 22nd 7    
25 Munroe Falls 1SW                                  
32 North Ridgeville 1N 39.2 22.9 31.1 66 7th -8 25th 4.07 0.9 23rd 17 27.6 8 22nd 6 38 7th
106 Newcomerstown 1S 41.5 25.5 33.5 68 7th -1 20th 3.51 1.91 23,24 12 3.3 1.4 19th 1 39 7th
15 Ottawa 4E 37.3 22 30 62 7th -15 25th 2.28 0.77 7th 13 11.5 7 23rd 3 44 7th
79 Perrysville 4W 38.7 22.6 30.7 52 31st -14 25th 3.78 0.95 23rd 9 19.3 8.8 23rd 3    
101 Ravenna 1E 39.5 27.5 33.5 64 7th 3 25th 2.13 0.44 7th 25 17.5 4.7 14th 7 33 7th
121 Ravenna 1SE 37.6 20.9 29.3 64 7th -7 24th 4.18 1.95 22nd 17 18 5 22nd 7    
33 Rockbridge 4W 40.5 23.6 32.1 68 7th -6 20th 3.29 1.62 22,23 11 4.9 2.2 13th 3    
1 Springfield 2 38 24 30 65 7th -8 25th 3.12 1.12 22nd 12 15.8 11.1 22nd 5 48 7th
112 Sugarcreek 2SW 40.2 24.4 32.3 67 7th -1 20th 3.89 1.65 23rd 15 4.6 1.6 19th 3 44 7th
98 Thompson 5SW 36.3 21.7 29 61 7th -7 25th 5.50 1.25 22,23 24 73.3 15.7 13,14 11 26 1,7
117 Tiltonsville                                  
A Toledo 36.5 21.9  29.2 59 7,31 -11 25th 2.08 0.86 6,7 12 10 6.8 23rd 3 47 7th
16 Wooster 7N 37.5 20.6 29.1 63 7th -16 25th 2.57 0.54 23rd 18 17.8 5.7 22nd 5 52 7th
A Youngstown 37.5 22.9 30.2 62 7th -2 25th 3.62 1.32 22,23 19 20.7 4.8 19th 6 56 7th
OWON # Station Mean Max Temp Mean Min Temp Mean Temp High Temp Date Low Temp Date Total Prec Max 24hr Prec Date


Prec Days

Total Snow Max 24hr Snow Date #  1"+ Snow Days Max Wind Gust Date

 = Airport         




Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 9:21 am
Subject: Snowy Day Here

Woke up to wind gusts of 35-40 mph and a blanket of snow. It's stopped
now but at least we have something besides green to look at....LOL

Barometer dipped to at least 29.56 overnight (I slept good and this is
the lowest I saw) and is now 29.73.

The snow is exiting to NE OH at this present time. be in the 50's by next Monday. We'll see.......

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 9:38 am
Subject: No school

Many schools didn't have class today or are on a 2 hour delay as a tree
fell and cut power to scads. Mainly in Columbus OH.

High winds are ripping and tossing everything not tied down.

Only one local school closed due to no power.

Major mess in the Columbus area. They seem to think that the only way
to get to work is by going 80 mph and with no signals, street
lights......well, you get the sad picture.


Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 9:44 am
Subject: Re: Snowy Day Here

Pam and Group:

Peak wind gust here was 46 m.p.h. @ 4:20 a.m. and it looks like the
barometric pressure bottomed out at 29.47 inches about an hour
before that. The wind woke me up several times. Today is garbage day
and I expected to see the cans halfway across the field on the other
side of the road but they just tipped over.

Looking at the 8 a.m. surface map the center of the low was over
eastern Lake Erie with a central pressure of 994 mb (29.35 inches)
and strengthening. According to the RUC model it should be over the
state of Maine by this evening so winds should die down fairly

Wooster 7N
Wayne County

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 9:00 am
Subject: Update

Temps are near freezing now and most of the snow is gone.

Except for my car, rooftops and the fence it's gone.

Rats! I want it to snow!  
Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 11:23 am
Subject: Monthly report

Ave. Max.; 51F Highest was 64F on the 7th
Ave. Minn.; 36.2F Lowest was 20F on the 14th
Ave. Temperature 43.6F Above normal by 3.1F
Precip.; 3.51" Above normal by .73"
Snowfall 0.3" Greatest amount in 24 hour, 0.3" on the 25th
Highest Baro.; 30.63" on the 14th
Lowest Baro.; 29.18" on the 25th
Highest wind speed 51 M.P.H. on the 24th
18 days with precip., out of 12 without.
NO SNOW! here.(12/1/04)
Set reading 37F
Low was 35F
Precip.; 0.01"
Putnam, Co.

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 11:52 am

We have just been put under a HIGH WIND ADVISORY here in Manfield.

The snow is gone, but the wind continues to howl.

In effect for the rest of today.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 1:37 pm
Subject: Weather Items

For those who might have the interest, I still maintain various weather
items which can be viewed at:

Larry Huff

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 2:01 pm

Channel 5 out of Cleveland ran a crawl line saying that 4 counties in
northern OH are under a HIGH WIND WARNING.

It ran so fast I couldn't catch which ones.

We are under an advisory with gusts up to 50mph.

Really nice day here.....sweatshirt wx and I have the door open with a
storm door only in.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 7:32 pm
Subject: Cold winter, but little snow?

I have seen the winter forecast. Its seems that it leans to a cold,
dry winter. It seems so far that, although the temps haven't been
unusually warm, the milder stuff hits during the systems, and it gets
colder just as the system passes. Its a matter of timing. What
amazes me is the failure of the lake effect to kick in. This usually
brings snow here even if we do get the warm side of the low. Perhaps
the systems are moving so fast the the winds don't maintain the fetch
long enougn.

November saw 2.8" snow (2.3" on Thanksgiving). We also got 0.1" on
October 16th.

Hope the pattern changes...I really was hoping to reach 200" this
season after falling disapointingly short at 190" last season.


Thompson 5 SW (northern Geaga Co.)

Date: Wed Dec 1, 2004 7:43 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: Update

Vance and Pam;
Hmmmmmm. How to reply, lol. Don't worry, it'll snow. We might only get a few
inches this month (December) but
it WILL snow again. When I was a kid in school I wanted snow ALL of the time,
obviously, to get out of school !!
LOL. The older I got though, the more I didn't like the snow. I love the
scenery, but I hate the COLD air that comes
in behind the storm. And it doesn't help matters any that the Newcomerstown
street department doesn't know how to
remove snow. If it's an inch or six, they sit on their fingers waiting for
sunlight to melt it, THEN spread ash and salt
!! I'm 100% serious !!!!
If the current pattern holds up then I could see a wet winter, but less snow
than the past two winters. I don't see as
much cold ait infiltrating us as one might think. Kiss of death? We'll see.
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 4:53 am
Subject: anyone renember this day?

1974 -A big snowstorm over the Ohio Valley and the lower Great Lakes
area came to an end. Detroit, Michigan measured 19.5 inchesof
snow, Toledo, Ohio recorded 15.9 inches, 17.8 inches fell at
Cleveland, Ohio, and Akron, Ohio was buried under 24.3inches.

From: "Amber Dalakas"  
Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 6:35 am
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] anyone renember this day?

Wasn't that the Thanksgiving weekend storm that shut down the interstates
with jack-knifed tractor trailers and accidents? We were stranded in WV for
a couple of extra days and had a heck of a time getting home.

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 6:40 am
Subject: Re: Cold winter, but little snow?

So far it has been quite warm in Cincinnati with November over 3F
above normal. It has also been very wet with nearly a foot of rain
since mid-october. The winter forecast has consistently been normal
to below normal and quite dry. Seems to me we would need a
significant pattern change to achieve that. With a weak El Nino this
year there are more variables in play. We'll see.

As for the lake effect that seldom hits us hard down here although we
are often indirectly affected by it. However my understanding is
that it is at its best when cold arctic air streams across the warm
lakes. No arctic air so far this year so no lake effect. It's as
simple as that. Evidence of no arctic air: We still have annual
flowers hanging on. My coldest: 28F.

Ron Rothhaas
Cincinnati 5NW

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 9:08 am
Subject: Wind Reports


Here are some wind reports from yesterday. These are all from
Cleveland NWS. I tried to look for reports from other WFO's that
have juristiction in Ohio but they had nothing or just some snow

Wooster 7N

335 PM EST WED DEC 1 2004















...ERIE PA...

...ERIE PA...

...ERIE PA...

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 9:50 am
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Wind Reports

Jack and Group;

I'll add Newcomerstown's highest wind gust for yesterday, and that was 37 mph @
6:32 a.m. I might also add we
picked up 1.01" of rainfall for the event.

Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 11:54 am
Subject: Belly Up

The huge Christmas tree on Public Square in Cleveland is no more.

It went belly up yesterday in all that wind. Most of what was on it was

They showed pictures of it on the Cleveland news yesterday.


Pam in North Central OH

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 12:06 pm
Subject: CC's

It's the warmest 33 degrees I've seen in a long time. Suns out and no
wind....3 mph.

Just dumped .90 from the storm on..........was it Monday?

Overnight low I saw was 27,

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 12:27 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] anyone renember this day?

A couple of years ago, the day after I left for AZ, Columbus had 20
inches of snow in 24 hours.

I sat in Phoenix at 60 something, in shorts and a T-shirt and just


Pam in North Central OH

From: "Jon"  
Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 2:04 pm
Subject: 2004 vs Other Years

I'm kinda a stats person when it comes to the weather. There have
been many forecasts for this upcoming winter, and I wanted to see
what years that 2004's weather matched well with. Here is what I
came up with:

2004 Stats as of 12/1/04:

2004 Precipitation
June-Aug: 15.23"
Years with summer precipitation of 15" or more since 1948: 1949,
1958, 1969, 1976, 1979, 1980, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1995, and 2003.

Sep-Nov: 10.43"
Years with fall precipitation of 10" or more since 1948: 1965, 1972,
1973, 1979, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1990, 1996, 2002, and 2003.

So far this year: 46.07"
Years with over 44" through December 1st: 1972, 1979, 1990, and 2003.

Multiple hit years vs. 2004 with precipitation:
1972, 1979, 1990, and 2003.

2004 # of 90 degree days: 3
Years with 5 or less 90 degree days since 1948: 1950, 1967, 1972,
1979, 1981, 1982, 1992, 2000, and 2003.

2004 March-May Mean: 54.3
Years that came within 1 degree of the 2004 Spring Mean:
1955, 1973, 1974, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1998, and 2000.

2004 June-August Mean: 71.5
Years that came within 1 degree of the 2004 Summer Mean:
1951, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1969, 1970,
1971, 1974, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1984, 1986, 1989, 1990, 1997,
2000, and 2003.

2004 Sept-Nov Mean: 56.4
Years that came within 1 degree of 2004 Fall Mean:
1953, 1954, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1965, 1970, 1971, 1982,1983, 1985, 1990,
1994, 1999, and 2001.

2004 First Temp Below 40: 38 on October 3rd.
Years with first temp below 40 the 1st week of October (Oct 1st-7th):
1948, 1952, 1954, 1958, 1966, 1968, 1971, 1977, 1980, 1986, 1988,
1994, 1996, 1997, and 2001.

2004 First Temp 32 or Below: 30 on November 9th.
Years with first temp 32 or below the 2nd week of November (Nov 8th-
Only 1951.

Multiple hit years with temperature vs. 2004:
1951, 1958, 1960, 1963, 1965, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1974, 1977, 1979,
1981, 1985, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1997, 2000, 2001, and 2003.

Multiple hits for both precipitation and temperature vs. 2004:
1979, 1990, and 2003.

Average snowfall for these 3 seasons in Columbus: 19.1" or just 68%
of normal.
Average mean Dec-Feb. temperature for these 3 seasons in Columbus:
31.3 or exactly average.

So it would appear, just based on actual weather, that 2004-05 would
feature near normal to slightly below normal temps and much below
normal snowfall for the Columbus area.

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 6:51 pm
Subject: November Data

High Temperature - 65 (2nd)
Low Temperature - 19 (4th)
Total Precipitation - 2.85 inches
Total Snowfall - 0.3 inches
Maximum 24-hour Precipitation - 0.59 (2nd)
Highest Wind Gust - 43 m.p.h. (4th)

Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N
Wayne County

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 7:04 pm
Subject: Holiday Gifts

During the holiday season I think many of us always have someone,
especially kids, that's difficult to think of what to give them.
What about something weather related? For starters what about
something like a weather radio, rain gauge, barometer, weather
books, etc.

I think many of us who have made weather a hobby for any length of
time can think of something they've gotten from either someone or
for themselves that started their interest in weather.

Perhaps this might be a good topic of discussion; what started your
interest in weather?

Wooster 7N

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Holiday Gifts

Jack and Group;
Well, as I eluded to very recently, my interest in weather came about when I
watched the daily news when I was in
grade school. I always hoped there would be a snowstorm coming along to dump six
inches of snow to get us out of
school for days at a time! In 1978 when I was a freshman in High School, we
really had good luck. In my opinion
anyhow!! There was a period of just over two weeks when we had no school. Of
course part of the reason for that
was the "Blizzard of '78". I recall seeing snow piled as high as 8 feet or more
as a result of the street department
having to make piles of snow in the middle of the road, and in parking lots.
I've never seen anything matching that
since. The President's Day weekend snowstorm in February of 2003 is the closest
I've seen.
Enough rambling. Hope that answers the question and no one is asleep now after
all of that!
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Thu Dec 2, 2004 7:29 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Holiday Gifts

Interest started in Kindergarden. I can remember what seemed to be snow
up to the sky and the streets of Columbus OH with tons of it. Of course,
the "don't put your tongue on metal frozen door" memories.......OUCH

Tornado's were rough....I remember my parents taking me to Radnor OH to
see a person they knew who had died. The little girls doll baby was in
a tree.

Then in high school the streets of Columbus had flooded and we went down
the street in canoe's.......

In college I was in Circleville OH in '74 the day the outbreak of
tornado's killed many ppl. The one that hit Xienia (spelling wrong)
took the car port off the girls dorm where I was.... YIKES

Adulthood found me in Mansfield. in the blizzard my window's blew out
of my apt and killed my fish and I had to relocate for a few days.
James Truely, a trucker from Cleveland, spent 8 days or so buried under
a drift of snow out on Rt 13, just north of Mansfield in Richland Co.
All he had to eat was candy and he got water from the snow.

10 years later he died of a heart attack.

In the winter of ..... '94? we had 88 inches of snow. They were
hauling it to our airport.

The ice in '97 caused me to slide on black ice and when the car hit the
ditch, my back was broken, forever changing my life.

No, I am not afraid to drive in snow or ice. The accident was a fluke
and couldn't possible happen againl

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 6:55 am
Subject: Re: Cold winter, but little snow?


Ice on Lake Erie is not a factor as long as it is this warm! I saw
yesterday that there are -35F readings in N Canada so if a little of
that could work in (which won't happen in the near term) your lake
effect would kick into high gear. One would think that the odds
favor some of that coming this way at some point this winter.
However, the persistent split flow is doing a good job of blocking
for now. I'm with you, though. My fondest winter memories are of the
late 70's. In 1978 we had over 60 consecutive days with over 4
inches of snowcover. For this far south and this far from the lakes
that is remarkable.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 10:18 am
Subject: School Day Forcast

I woke up to 27 degrees and snow showers.

They quickly vanished (bummer) and now the sun is brilliantly shining
with some clouds.

Temps are 28, barometer is 29.99 and winds are 8 mph.

Last night, the local radar map showed snow and winter mix over the NE
part of the state....Cleveland, Akron...etc.


Other places: Deluth MN is getting buried in snow and the Phillippines
are drenched as the typhoon roars in the Pacific. Over 500 ppl now have

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 2:47 pm
Subject: Where's the snow?!

O.K.! Here it is December 3rd already and all I've seen so far are a
handful of flakes :(. We had a few snow showers Thanksgiving morning
that didn't stick, a quick burst of snow as that deep LOW (and
associated windstorm) passed through Wednesday morning, and a brief
mix of rain and snow yesterday evening around 8 PM or so.

I'm hankering for some holiday season snow! Tis the season! The
Christmas season just isn't right without white!

But when I look at the forecasts for early next week, I see a
forecast high temperature of 57 for Monday and upper 40's for
Tuesday :(. The computer models are hinting at some possible changes
during the week of December 13th to us snow lovers delight!

Hang in there :)!

Matt Higgins
Lakewood, Ohio

P.S. Yep, I've moved from Lodi to Lakewood & ready to report!

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Where's the snow?!

It fell in Ashtrabula  overnight......5 inch of lake effect per
Channel 8.

We had a dusting this am of it and on Thanksgiving the ground was
completely white along with the ice that coated my car.

For a couple of years.......01 and 02 it started snowing (everyday) in
early October here and didn't stop until April.

I must be really ignorant.....Lakewood is ....... where/what county?

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 9:10 pm
Subject: Re: Where's the snow?!


Lakewood is the first suburb west of Cleveland bordering Lake Erie
(Cuyahoga County). 5" in Ashtabula County? At least someone is getting
something :)! We need to get into some deeper Canadian air on a good,
stiff north/northwest wind so we can get a more widespread lake-effect
snow event!


From: "Jon"  
Date: Sat Dec 4, 2004 9:29 pm
Subject: Re: FBlock To Bring Record Warm Winter To Ohio!

Despite what NWS offices are saying right now, I'd look for a colder
patter and perhaps some snow by the end of next weekend.

Date: Sun Dec 5, 2004 1:32 pm
Subject: Re: Where's the snow?!

Ron and Group:

Great hearing from you again, Ron! Glad you've made it back to the
group. Always enjoy your posts!

To give you a direct answer to your question concerning a "pattern
change", I can't see anything definitive for at least the next 1 to 2
weeks. Trends are showing the development of a +PNA, +NAO pattern
setting up around mid-month (beginning next weekend). Whether this is
a temporary glitch in the overall pattern or a change that will last
through the rest of the winter it's just not clear.

A +PNA, +NAO pattern is typically one that limits sustained advection
of arctic air into the more southerly latitudes and often does not
"lock" a deep freeze into Ohio Valley and points south. This doesn't
say arctic air won't advect into the southerly latitudes under this
pattern, it certainly could depending on the amplitude of the pattern,
but it just doesn't stick around for very long. Under this type of
pattern, cold advection is maximized and more sustained across the
upper Great Lakes, Ontario, Quebec, and northern New England.
According to literature I've been reading, long-range outlooks for the
Winter of 2004-2005 are keeping a +NAO configuration during most of
the season. With that in mind, I wouldn't expect many days of harsh
cold in the Ohio Valley region (and points south). Cold shots will be
delivered during periods of +PNA configuration (like one setting up
next weekend, perhaps) and behind departing strong surface LOWs (and
associated sharp upper-level TROFs) but will be transitionary in
nature and not long lived.

Does that mean we'll be cheated from a snowfall perspective? Perhaps
not. A lot will depend on the timing and track of key disturbances
during +PNA periods. Remember, that the Alberta Clipper is the
biggest snowfall generator in our "neck of the woods". The thing to
watch would be the development of LOWs in the vicinity of the Canadian
Rockies during periods where the upper-level ridge amplifies over the
western U.S. and Canada. If you check the GFS run from this morning ,
you'll notice such a LOW trying to organize in the lee of the northern
U.S. Rockies on Day 7 (this upcoming Saturday, Dec. 11th) and drop
east-southeastward towards southern Ohio on Day 8. The run to run
consistancy of the GFS on specific features (such as LOWs) has been
poor; however, the model has trended towards a +PNA, +NAO
configuration in the past several runs. Something to watch...


Date: Sun Dec 5, 2004 4:08 pm
Subject: Student wants snow

Hi everyone,

Working at a preeminent college of art & design, I see students from
all over the U.S. here in the library. One of the students I see
regularly is from Jacksonville, Florida, and has never seen snow.

She was here over the Thanksgiving holiday and was unimpressed by our
brief display of snow showers at 34F. She wants to see it stick and
wants to be able to make snow angels, throw snowballs, slog around in
it, etc.

I told her that she'll regret her wish come February. :)

Special to the NEOCAMS people -- sorry I missed the dinner on Friday.
I knew it was coming up but I lost the e-mail that specified when and
where. I hope you had fun.

Cheers & happy holidays,

Date: Sun Dec 5, 2004 6:44 pm
Subject: November 2004 Stats - Ravenna 1SE

Here are my unimpressive numbers for November.
Hi Temp - 69 (11/2/04)
Low Temp - 21 (11/14/04)
Mean Hi Temp - 53.43
Mean Low Temp - 33.23
Mean Temp - 43.33
Total Precip - 3.42"
Precip Days - 13
Max 24 hr Precip - 0.93" (11/30/04)
T-Storm Days - 0
Snowfall - Trace (11/25 & 11/26) - First of Season
A pretty dull month all in all, but I'm not complaining. On a side note, welcome
to Pam and welcome back
Matt and Ron. Happy holidays to all!!!
Gary Locke

Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 2:19 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: FBlock To Bring Record Warm Winter To Ohio!

Saw the forcast for tommorrow and it's going to be hard to gear up for

Temps to be above 60 tommorrow with rain/wind.

It's sad to think that I can turn the furnace off in December for the

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 2:24 pm
Subject: Winter Weather Issues - Snow

From another group.

Pam in North Central OH


From: AC5JW Raleigh Stout  
Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 1:41 pm
Subject: [Crazy_Weather] Winter Weather Issues - Snow

National Situation Update: Saturday, December 4, 2004

Homeland Security Threat Level: YELLOW (ELEVATED).

Winter Weather Issues - Snow

Heavy snow can immobilize a region and paralyze a
city, stranding commuters, closing airports, stopping
the flow of supplies, and disrupting emergency and
medical services. Accumulations of snow can also cause
roofs to collapse and knock down trees and power and
telephone lines and result in severe impacts on the
operational capability of life-saving and
life-sustaining systems as well as on other critical
infrastructures. Homes and farms may be isolated for
days and unprotected livestock may be lost and in the
mountains, heavy snow can lead to avalanches.

The cost of snow removal, repairing damages, and the
loss of business can have severe economic impacts on
cities and towns.

Terms associated with winter storms:

BLIZZARD: Winds of 35 mph or more with snow and
blowing snow reducing visibility to less than  mile
for at least 3 hours.

BLOWING SNOW: Wind-driven snow that reduces
visibility. Blowing snow may be falling snow and/or
snow on the ground picked up by the wind.

SNOW SQUALLS: Brief, intense snow showers accompanied
by strong, gusty winds. Accumulation may be

SNOW SHOWERS: Snow falling at varying intensities for
brief periods of time. Some accumulation is possible.

SNOW FLURRIES: Light snow falling for short durations
with little or no accumulation.

(National Weather Service Publication)

Last Updated: December 06, 2004 08:41 AM

Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 7:42 pm
Subject: Tomorrow's Winds/Late Week Snows?


From what models and discussions I've seen regarding the wind I
would check your flashlights and any battery operated equipment;
when was the last time you checked your battery backup for your
weather radio or station equipment?

I was looking at the ETA model and by early Tuesday afternoon it has
the surface pressure for that Low over southwest Michigan by early
afternoon with the central pressure at 988 milliars (29.18 inches).
Won't be surprised to see some significant wind damage in places.
(Was watching the evening news where they just replaced the
Christmas tree at Cleveland's Public Square that came down because
of the high winds from Saturday).

As for any general snowfall over the next week or so I don't see it
happening. I see some clipper-type systems coming in but staying
north of Ohio with modified cold air but nothing out of the
southwest. If these models hold up I look for some significant lake
effect. We shall see.

Wooster 7N

Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 8:00 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Tomorrow's Winds/Late Week Snows?

Jack, Group;
The saying I usually use for predicitng weather in Ohio from late Fall through
early spring is... "forecasting weather in
Ohio in the winter is like throwing darts at a dart board". I see nothing to get
excited about regarding a few flurries, and
that's all I'd say will fall later in the week. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised
if the forecast high's change several times
between now and then.
Just my own opinion, take it or leave it.
Don Keating
Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 8:44 pm
Subject: Feels like spring in Middletown OH

You would think it was spring here in Middletown, Ohio, also. It's 57.3
degrees out, with winds just beginning to pick up. Temps should rise during
the night, and we have a high wind warning in effect for tomorrow.

I just got back from shooting Middletown's Christmas balloon glow. The
weather was so perfect for the event that so many people turned out that we
actually had large-scale gridlock downtown (we joke that Middletown doesn't
have a rush hour, it has a rush minute). I have shot this event during past
years when the temperature was as low as 10 degrees

Sarah the WeatherCat has been acting really strange, today - She's on a
broad-jump kick, and she usually does this before a severe weather event.
My boss said that his dog was really antsy today, also.

Wonder what tomorrow holds in store for us...

Middletown OH

Date: Mon Dec 6, 2004 9:34 pm
Subject: Weds. winds from the west -- lake effect?

So... If I read this correctly, strong LOW pressure is going to move
from southwest to northeast but passing to our west... Which means
that by Tuesday evening we will have cold but possibly moist air coming
from the west across Lake Erie. The question becomes, where will the
LOW go after it passes to our west? If it goes due east, the winds
will probably not cross Lake Erie at the correct angle to produce a
Lake Effect here in Ohio, but Buffalo could get walloped. If the jet
sinks and takes the LOW back a little southerly, we could get it.

Am I right?

Elizabeth Stapleton -

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 8:37 am

Advisories for high winds with gusts OVER 50 mph have been posted for
most of the northern tier of OH. (Don't know about the rest of the

Temps are going to climb to an unreal 62 degrees here in Mansfield.
That may not be much to the rest of the state, but look how far north
that we are.

Hold on to your hats..and just about everything else that isn't bolted

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 10:22 am
Subject: Re: Weds. winds from the west -- lake effect?


I was referring to the possible lake effect snows occuring late this
week and over the weekend from a couple of clipper-type systems
moving in. Don't see anything in the way of snow from this system
moving through today.

Barometric pressure is really dropping like a rock right now. It's
fallen more than two-tenths of an inch in the last four hours.

Wooster 7N

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 12:34 pm
Subject: Weather Update

A glance at the 12 PM surface observations show wind speeds gradually
increasing over Ohio. Gusts to over 30 MPH are now occurring at
Cleveland and Mansfield. It was interesting to find most of the ASOS
stations in Ohio not reporting at 12 PM?!

A glance at Indiana and Kentucky indicate that the highest gusts were
occurring over southern IN and western KY near the cold front. Gusts
in the 40 to 50 MPH range were occurring at those locations.

The barometer is falling VERY rapidly. When I left home this morning
my reading at Lakewood was 29.74 inches at 7 AM. Now I notice CLE
down to 29.36 inches at 12:38 PM.

In terms of snowfall, don't expect anything from this LOW passing
through the Great Lakes today and no lake effect snow as the air
coming in behind this LOW is mainly of modified Pacific origin and is
too warm. It MIGHT get a little more interesting from a snowfall
perspective this weekend. Models are still showing A LOT of
discrepancy and inconsistancy from run to run, but I do see a trend
towards colder setting up this weekend into next week.



Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 1:27 pm

At 1:30 this afternoon(December 7)here at my weather station in northwest
Hocking County the temperature reached 68 degrees. The barometric
pressure was 29.47".
Jim Fry
Rockbridge 4W
OWON #33

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 3:37 pm
Subject: Record

Hello Group;
At 1:33 p.m. we had a reading of 68 for the daily high temperature. This broke
the previous record high of 67
established in 1998. It is currently 66. So far today my peak wind gust has been
32 mph. However around 2 p.m. a line
of heave rain showers and quite gusty winds moved through town and in fact,
power was knocked out in the SW corner
of town for just over two hours. This outage affected me here as well. Power is
obviously back on. More later.
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 4:27 pm

We are having gusts up to 54 mph with this low pressure event, and the
advisory is up till 11pm EST.

Depending on what channel you are on, the temp is 50 to 60 degrees and
our pressure is 29.39 and starting to rise.

Tree damage in most yards and the blowing leaves looks like an explosion
at a leaf factory. hahahahaha

Mix with the rain and it's like getting hit with a bb.

Our forcasted high was 62 degrees and Phoenix AZ was forcasted to have
62 degrees.

What's wrong with this picture?

To be 25 degrees overnight

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 4:33 pm
Subject: High Winds

Just prior to 4:15 PM, Lorain County Regional Airport had a wind gust
to 56 MPH. A line of rainshowers accompanying a cold front is
producing wind gusts of 50 to 60 MPH. The line is expected to pass
through eastern Ohio over the next few hours. Those east of the line
should prepare for potentially damaging winds over the next few hours.


Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 4:42 pm
Subject: High Winds-Further Details

Lorain County Regional Airport, where the 56 MPH wind gust occurred
just prior to 4:15 PM, is located near Elyria. As of 4:35 PM, the
line of showers extends from the western suburbs of Cleveland south
to just east of Mansfield, to just northwest of Columbus, and
continues in a broken fashion to near Cincinnati. The line is moving
east-northeast at about 50 MPH and is producing wind gusts of 50 to
60 MPH in places.


From: "Jon Seymour"  
Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Tomorrow's Winds/Late Week Snows?

Guys, I would not be so sure that a larger snow event is not in the cards
this weekend. Some of the models have been showing a significant storm for
the area. I would also not be so sure that temps are going to be as warm as
predicted. I said something about this 3 days ago here.

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 4:55 pm
Subject: 62 MPH Gust at the NWS Office in Cleveland

I just checked my AWS Weatherbug for Cleveland Hopkins Airport. At
4:48 PM the display was showing SW winds at 51 MPH gusting to 62 MPH
as the line of showers passed through. That's serious wind!!


Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: Weds. winds from the west -- lake effect?

Don.....last summer (before this group) I tracked a weeks worth of wx.
Each time I saw that day that I had picked, when it changed .. I wrote
down the conditions for that moment. LOL

One day on that changed 3 times in 12 hours.

I couldn't believe it!

Try's fun.

Matt.....I'm not saying what you posted isn't true, I'm only saying what
a Cleveland met just said.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: Weds. winds from the west -- lake effect?


That 54 MPH was probably reported from either the FOX8 studios or
Burke Lakefront Airport. The AWS Weatherbug takes its information
directly from the National Weather Service site that I had it set for
(in this case Cleveland Hopkins Airport). The peak gust at Cleveland
Hopkins Airport was 62 MPH.

The NWS has issued a High Wind Warning to replace the Wind Advisory
for the east lakeshore counties of Ohio until 11 PM local time to
account for the gusts in excess of 60 MPH.


Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: Weds. winds from the west -- lake effect?

No, even our local channel said 54 mph. We have alot of damage here as
far as damage to trees.

TWC said Cleveland had 65 mph winds......and TWC said 54mph for Columbus
and 54mph Mansfield.

I'm just telling you what has been broadcasted by 3 different sources.

I really haven't heard this kind of wind since I was at the Grand
Canyon. It took the glasses right off my face. At the North Rim it
blows thru the Ponderosa pines.

They close the North rim in October and open in May because they get 25
feet a season.....WAHOOOOOOOOOOO

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 6:52 pm
Subject: Wind Gusts/Temperature


I had a wind gust of 52 m.p.h. at 5:30 p.m. on my anemometer. My
high temp was 63 degrees at 1:30 but at 6:30 is down to 52. Didn't
break any record though which is 66 degrees set in 1998. The lights
haven't even flickered here which is very unusual out here in the
country. Usually it's a fact of life to have the power go out a
dozen times a year here. Being on well water, having a septic
system, and being part of a coop electric system does have its
challenges. If you know the power may go out because of wind or
freezing precipitation you just break out a half dozen flash lights
and candles and fill up the bath tub for the toilet and drinking

Wooster 7N

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 8:03 pm
Subject: Damaging Winds In Ravenna

Ravenna has had some severe damage around town due
to the high winds. Here at Ravenna 1E, I recorded a
high wind gust of 33mph at 524pm, then the power went
out for a short time( about 10 min.), and no cable for
about 2hours, so I was unable to log on to the
After the power came on, I turned on the scanner
because I heard allot of sirens. I found out that
down the street, a tree fell on some power lines, and
caused a house fire on E. Highland Ave. I also heard
where several large trees were down all over the city,
and many power,cable and phone lines were also down.
I only had .16" of rain, so far, with the lowest
barometer reading of 29.49". I was able to call the
NWS in Cleveland, and Jim Kosarik answered the phone,
so I told him what was going on.
Even though I did not have the high winds as others
had, it did cause quite a bit of damage here.

Rich Rabatin
Portage County

Date: Tue Dec 7, 2004 8:40 pm
Subject: Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO)

Can anyone tell me what the Madden-Julian Oscillation is exactly. I understand
the NAO, PNA, and ENSO very well.
However, the MJO baffles me. I can't seem to find any useful information on the
web regarding this phenomenom. The
NWS people at the Grand Rapids forecast office discuss the MJO quite a bit in
their "long term discussion" without
really explaining what it is. This is a link to their discussion earlier today
in which they seem to discount the the colder
pattern all the models are predicting after this weekend solely because of the
Last winter, in reading their discussions, they correctly predicted a warm spell
in the middle of a long term cold pattern
based on the MJO when none of the other NWS offices that I read did. Can anyone
explain or direct me to information
about the MJO???
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

From: "Jon"  
Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 9:18 am
Subject: Much colder pattern on the way?

While no big snowstorms seem likely yet, there is a chance of
accumulating snow this weekend, both synoptic and lake-effect. The
weekend system will usher in much colder air, but per models may just
be the beginning. Some of the models have been showing a Polar
Vortex taking shape near or just over the Lakes before December
18th. If that should happen, a very cold second half of the month
might be in store for the Ohio Valley. Just something to watch.

Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 10:58 am
Subject: What a Change!

What a change in wx from yesterday.

Thank goodness they missed our low of 25 degrees overnight. I saw 35 or

Today is 39 degrees and cloudy, barometer is 30.15 and wind is a
whopping 2mph.

For those except the OH wx group.....major damage in most of northern
OH. Channel 5 showed a tree that crashed into a house. They said two
more feet and ppl would of gotten hurt.

Many power outages all over.

A nice calm day here after the big blow.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 11:19 am
Subject: Snow coming here?

Reports on the Cleveland stations are reporting a significant snow
event, probably Sunday night, for the northern part of OH.

Lake Erie will be doing her thing and sending all the wonderful stuff
our way.
Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 2:48 pm
Subject: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather

The Grand Rapids Michigan NWS forecaster still thinks the models are wrong in
predicting cold weather for the Great
Lakes region next week. Here is an excerpt from his discussion of this morning:
353 AM EST WED DEC 8 2004
.........LONG TERM...
Again, can anyone tell me where I can find information on the MJO (Madden-Julian
Doug Brady
Hambden Twp.
Northern Geauga County

Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 3:06 pm
Subject: Re: Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO)


Try the following:


Date: Wed Dec 8, 2004 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather

I still say no one can predict what is going to happen.

I just remember the given forcast for the day of the blizzard in '78
wasn't even close to what happened (at least in Mansfield)

Instead of going back and forth on this topic, why not just state your
position and see who comes to the actual day once it has past?

Kind of a contest.

I charted a weeks worth of wx and it changed 3 times in one day at

Try it and you'll be shocked! Pick a week
from today and everytime you see the forcast....chart forcasted highs
and lows and rain, snow etc.

Pam in North Central OH

From: "Bridget and Ron"  
Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:38 am



Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:46 am
Subject: Re: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather


Don't be too defeatest when it comes to prediction. True, it is as
much an art as a science but thousands of lives have been saved due
to improvements in forecasting. This is why we no longer have
hurricanes in the US which kill thousands or tornadoes which kill
hundreds. This summer would have been disasterous in the human toll
if not for reasonably accurate forecasts. Winter storms?
Predictions here save lives to. With most of the people on this site
it's just fun to speculate. I usually learn something along the way.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 11:12 am
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather

I example that really ticked me off this summer was for
severe T-storms with damaging winds to hit Mansfield.

They pushed the panic button somewhere and we were put under a TORNADO
WARNING by the NWS in Cleveland.

We had about 10 drops of rain, three claps of thunder...........

I used to have a signature on this email that said......"Confusius say,
wise man listen to weather forcaster and take precations in case they
may be right"

Like I said yesterday about what may come Sunday night.....I went to the
grocery and will get a fill up on gas before then.

Just in case......

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 1:36 pm
Subject: Re: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather


I hear you! It seems like everytime I turn on the weather radio I
get a different forecast for the weekend. Sometimes I think the
quality of the forecasts were better back in the 1970's and 80's
prior to the development of the many forecasting models that are in
use today. It seems like the more opinions you get, the more
difficult the forecaster has in making a decision especially if more
than one model result "makes sense".

As you said, forecasts for Saturday and Monday are calling for snow.
How much? If it will happen, we'll see. It would be nice to see some
during this holiday season (preferably BEFORE Christmas)!

People I'm talking with are just not getting into the Christmas
spirit. Many of them are blaming it on the lack of snow. It's
disappointing when the season is this green and we haven't seen even
a modest ground covering of white to date. Maybe this weekend :).
Maybe, hopefully!


Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO)

Jack and Doug,

Thanks for the link on the MJO, Jack. Very informative! Great
question, Doug. I didn't know what MJO was and now I have a better

Based on the text in the article, it appears that the MJO enhances
(or modifies) disturbances in the subtropical jet especially during
El Nino winters. How this can affect cold advection into the eastern
U.S. I can only speculate that during an active MJO ridging in the
subtropical jet behind enhanced disturbances can aid in diverting the
polar jet from shifting into more southerly latitudes? I'm just
speculating based on what I'm reading and am not sure :).

When I have time, I'll do some additional reading & see if I can come
up with an explanation. I'm curious as to the logic of that Grand
Rapids forecaster in his long-range outlook..


Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 4:13 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather

Well, since I typed that email they have changed it once again.

Snow for Saturday thru Weds....

Matt, you know how wicked and how the wx changes here in northern OH.

I wasn't on this group this past summer, but many times I posted (after
a watch, advisory or warning fizzled out) that one of these days they
are going to cry wolf once to often and no one is going to listen and we
are going to get nailed.

We have O'Possum Run Road down here and the temps got down to -27 this
year in the first couple of months.

Dick Goddard in Cleveland is always talking about it.

Pam in North Central OH

From: "Jon"  
Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather

IMO, a lot of the OV NWS offices have been dropping the ball on this
weekend and beyond. I'm in Columbus, and my own ILN has been back
and forth with snow chances, nearly removing it altogther this
morning. They had a 30% chance of rain or snow showers SUNDAY
night. This afternoon, they put a chance of snow in from Friday
night through Sunday, but they don't expect any accumulation. I do
believe that many people may be surprised come this weekend both in
terms of snow and really the cold. I think both are being
underdone. Notice that GRR today has started to completely reverse
itself on the cold and snow, now admitting it may have been fighting
on the wrong side.

Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 6:55 pm
Subject: Re: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather

I was a little baffled by GRR's previous discussions. Although, they
peaked my interest enough to read up on MJO (thanks again to Jack and
Doug). The trend I've been seeing all week in the maps has been
towards colder for next week. It would be nice to wake up Saturday
morning to a fresh snow cover (I'm not greedy, one inch would be fine,
BUT MORE TO FOLLOW LATER). I also see that Cleveland NWS has backed
off high temperature forecasts for next Monday into the 20's.
Depending on how other factors pan out, that'll be plenty cold enough
for significant lake-effect snow.

Pam, how close do you live to the weather station on O'Possum Run Road
(Tee Failer)?


Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 12:29 pm
Subject: Long-Term Weather Forecasting

As Ron says, long-term weather predictions can be as much of an art as a science
at times. Some of us in the group take
this to a much greater depth because to them (us) it's just another facet of
weather to enjoy. It is a "contest" of sorts in
which anyone can play but with no winners or losers in the end.
It is difficult if not impossible for anyone, professionals alike, to predict
what weather will happen several days or
weeks ahead with any great degree of accuracy. The weather forecasts change
often because the weather models
change. Many of these models are put out at least twice a day. There are many
different models to look at that show
what may be happening ahead from a matter of hours to a matter of days. Many
times these models don't have a run-to-
run consistency. Hence, the complete change of a forecast from one day to the
I think forecasts have become much more reliable than several years ago.
However, I think there are some, such as a
few of those in the media, that try to make such ridiculous long-range forecasts
merely for the sake of ratings or to
satisfy an inflated ego or both. All this does is make them look foolish and
degrade the weather profession itself.
I'll get off the soapbox but that's my opinion. This has always been an active
topic of discussion. Just remember we're
all here to have fun and enjoy Ohio's crazy weather.
Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N

Date: Thu Dec 9, 2004 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: More on the MJO, upcoming cold weather

I am about 5-6 miles from the beginning of O'Possum Run Road. It is at
the 71 and Rt 13 exit.

Our official readings come from the air base, and Dick Goddard has a
contact that he uses on the road.

Snow Trails is also there.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:56 am

If you truly get upset about forecast difficulties in the Ohio valley
(and I'm not implying anyone does) Ohio is not the place for you!
Yesterday I put in a post defending forecasts despite their
idiocyncracies. Pam's point was defended rather strongly by local
circumstance yesterday. In the AM the NWS forecast was for light
showers and sprinkles mainly south and east of the metro area.
Drizzle commenced at about 11 AM and then evolved into continual rain
which was moderate at times in the afternoon. I ended up with 0.54
inch of sprinkles and I am 5 miles NW of downtown. Even Hamilton 20
miles north of town had 0.34! As Jack said it is fun to speculate
and try your hand at predicting but keep your sense of humor. I work
at a weather sensitive job. People I work with look to me for WX
info and I took a good ribbing yesterday for the half inch of

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:30 am
Subject: Wx Humor

Some of the oldtimers here have heard this story, but will repeat for
the newer ppl.

As my friend Ron dug out his driveway in the Blizzard of 1978, he came
in and asked his wife "Kathy, why are we still here?"

After researching many places to live for a great climate year around,
they moved to a suburb of Phoenix AZ.

He jokingly tells me that in the time since 1978 they've had snow
flurries only once.

Caused quite a stir as everyone ran out with their cam corders to get
the 15 minutes of snow on tape.

Ron stood there and just chuckled at the spectacle of the residents
running around all excited.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: FORECASTS

The unpredictability of Ohio weather gives us something to talk about
and debate. The ever changing nature and variety of weather in Ohio
makes it truly fascinating, as well as the natural beauty of the
changing seasons. True, other parts of the country have variety too,
but I can't think of many places I would enjoy less than Phoenix.
First I hate heat and I can't fathom how anyone enjoys 100+ 6 months
out of the year. Second, what real change of seasons do they have?
How boring. I thought you were the "think snow" girl. Phoenix???
You'd better think about that. My pastor retired last year and moved
back to Grand Rapids to be near family. Grand Rapids. Now that's a
retirement destination!

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:01 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: FORECASTS

I love snow and it is great but I broke my back in '97 (was rebroke in
2001) and am unable to work do to the chronic pain from the injury.
Starting in October I slow waaaaaaaaaaay down due to the cold. In our
summer, all depends on temp and humidity as to how I feel. When it's 88
out, I can zip all over. As the pressure builds, my pain level
increases and pray that low pressure hurries up and gets here. The last
couple of days I've zipped around better than some days. MY PAIN LEVEL

When it's that hot in Phoenix, you got to remember the humidity goes
down to almost zil. I've seen it as low as 4%!!!!!

When I was there with 100 degree wx, I didn't sweat!!!!!! Not one

Not like OH where it is so humid you can cut it with a knife at times.'d be surprised. The desert climate does see cold
temps! We went to a church on the res and that morning it was 34

The mts in the area of Phoenix get snow. I've seen it in Feb. On South
Mt in Feb. we about froze our six off at 2300 feet.

About 4 hours north you can have all the snow you want. They have ski
resorts and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon gets 25 FEET a year.

Even as close as Sedona AZ, about 2 hours north of Phoenix, they get all
4 seasons! Right now they have about a 5 inch snow cover. It's up in
the mountains.

Even Tucon, which is more south than Phoenix, gets snow in the winter.

They have "monsoon" season which is about 3 months a year....where it

I've been there all times of the year. One year I got back to Mansfield
it was 0 degees and I had just left 70 degrees and sun.

So you see that Grand Rapids MI would be the worse thing I could do for
me and my injury .. warmer is better. There's days here I don't do a
thing. And since I don't have to go out.....I don't.

What it comes down to is the factors WHY a person likes a certain
climate and in my case why I like a warmer climate.

My call.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: And the winner is......

A snowfall of 1 to 3 inches!!!! Bring it on, Pam, I'm ready! It's 38
degrees outside now (at 9 PM) according to my weather station in the
kitchen and periodic light rain/drizzle is falling. The fog was really
dense earlier today (around lunchtime or so) with visibilities down to
less than a 0.25 mile at times.

Looks like I'll finish putting my Christmas lights out tomorrow in the
snow! That'll make it look and feel a lot more like the Christmas season.

Sorry to hear about your injuries, Pam. I can understand why you
would prefer a warmer climate. People with bone/joint injuries and
diseases seem to be more comfortable during warm days from what I

I personally like a climate with four seasons, like what we have here
in Ohio. I love the snow during the winter but do get sick of it by
late March :). I also cherish our very pleasant summers. We don't get
a lot of really hot days around here (maybe only a handful a year of
90 degrees plus) but just enough to satisfy my annual "hunger" for
heat. Our autumns are usually one of the most colorful and has the
best weather in the world (especially October)!

Naw..I'll stay in Cleveland & northeast Ohio. I can handle our
seasonal grey won't last forever!


Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:10 am
Subject: Re: And the winner is......

Matt and Pam:

Matt, I'm like you. I enjoy the change of seasons, even if we
sometimes experience it one day (ha,ha). Having lived with it for
more than fifty years I guess I'll stick with it. Was wondering if
you were going to get some kind of weather station put up at your
new place. Did you put your Davis back up?

Pam, I had a coworker whose oldest son moved to Phoenix many years
ago. He couldn't stand the cold weather either. However, like you
say, he can go snow skiing and water skiing all in the same day.

Woke up this morning with only about a tenth of an inch of snow.
About the only place you could really see it was on the back patio
deck. Still above freezing as of 9 a.m.

Wooster 7N

Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:24 am
Subject: snow is starting

The snow has started!! I recorded 0.3" for my 9am snowfall and a few
tenths of an inch has fallen since. At 9am the temp was 33 and there
were slushy coatings on cold surfaces. Since then the temp hasw
reached freezing and the snow is sticking pretty well. Before
today's snow, we've seen 3.5 inches for the season so far in widely
scattered occurences beginning Oct. 16th.

Thompson 5 SW (northern Geauga Co.)

Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:06 pm
Subject: Gloomy, chilly day-No snow accumulation

Being only about 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile from the Lake Erie shoreline has
its disadvantages when it comes to snow sometimes. Snow was in the
air much of the afternoon, but it never accumulated here. The
changeover from rain to snow was slow here as well, not taking place
until late this morning (between 10-11 AM). Currently, we have 33
degrees with periodic light snow showers. The total LIQUID
precipitation today was 0.07 inch, and snowfall will go down as a
"trace" since it all melted once it reached the ground.

It may get very interesting for "snow-belters" late Sunday night
through Tuesday as a vigorous lake-effect snow event gets underway.
This may be our best bet for significant accumulating snow this week
for northeast Ohioans (even here in Lakewood).

Jack, to answer your question, my Davis went "galley west" this past
summer. The anemometer ball bearings gave out early this year and the
display on the unit started to fade. I've decided NOT to replace it.
I've purchased a LaCrosse wireless station that I'm currently using
along with my Tru-Check rain gauge. That is what I'm planning to use
from this point forward. In addition, there are so many AWS
Weatherbug stations near my home (within just 2 miles or so) I can
always tap into those for supplemental information.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!


Date: Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:51 pm
Subject: snow report at 7pm

At 7pm we've had 2.3" of snow for the day so far with 2" on the
ground. It had changed over sometime before 7:15am. Matt, Mentor is
the same way as your area with the air being kept above freezing even
though there may be fairly moderate or heavy snow falling much of the
time. (I work in Mentor.) In this area, there is often a rather
sharp snowline at Route 90 and it was so at 2pm this afternoon when
was there. Here the temperature has no problem dropping to freezing
when the snow starts so it accumulates well.

Thompson 5 SW (northern Geauga Co.)

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:55 am
Subject: November's Weather Statistics for Centerville 1W

Weather statistics for the month of November for Centerville 1W.
High Temp (Date) ... 68o / 2nd
Low Temp (Date) ... 26o / 9th & 26th
Mean High .. 53.5o
Mean Low .. 38.1o
Monthly Mean ... 45.8o
Total Precipitation ... 3.01"
Max 24 hr Precipitation (Date) ... 0.61" / 4th
Number of Precipitation Days... 12
Total Snowfall... 0.0"
Max 24 hr Snowfall (Date) ...
Max Snow Depth at time of observation ... 0"
High Wind Gust (Date) ... 33 MPH / 4th
Thunderstorm Days ... 1
Highest Barometer (Date) ... 30.81" / 14th
Lowest Barometer (Date) ... 29.27" / 24th
Average High Wind Gust... 18.4 MPH
Year To Date Precipitation . 37.99"

Robert Flory - KA5RUC
Centerville 1W
Southeast Montgomery County
Ohio Weather Observer Network #82
Wilmington NWS Skywarn ID OMT405

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:17 am
Subject: snowfall

Yesterday 1.2 inchs of snow fell in Toledo
point place....season to date is now 1.7

mike bielski
toledo 5 ne
NE lucas
point place

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:37 am
Subject: Clipper Snow!

That "Alberta Clipper" sure made for a tricky forecast :). A burst of
snow this morning deposited 0.7 inch so far in Lakewood for the first
measureable snow of the season. Looking A LOT more like the Christmas
season now! Good! Shopping is on the agenda today.

Still snowing (visibility 1 mile) and 31 degrees currently (at 10:30 AM).


Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:26 pm

From 8pm to 8am we have more of the high winds to deal with again.

HIGH WIND ADVISORY has been issued and up to and including 50 mph winds

We got about an inch of snow and tommorrow we can expect 1-3 inches


Temp is 34 degrees, barometer is 29.54 and winds are only 11 mph. The
calm before the storm.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:42 pm
Subject: Snow and cold

Looks like those of you in NE Ohio who like snow will see a good
amount with this arctic air mass, the missing ingredient is the
heretofore MIA lake snow machine. It may stay cold enough to keep it
in those areas through Christmas. Those of you who don't like snow
will see it as well, unless you come down to my corner of the state!
It's about time for some cold. Saw a perfectly healthy geranium in
bloom the other day and an only somewhat haggard sunflower!

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:54 am
Subject: 13 December, 2004 AM Snow Report

Date: 13 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 AM
12-Hour Snowfall: 4.6"
24-Hour Snowfall: 6.5"
Snow on Ground: 6"
Remarks: Light snow falling, 28 degrees F
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:37 am
Subject: GOT SNOW?

Most of northern OH is getting snow. WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

In the very NE tip of OH, WARNINGS are up as 10 inches could fall (per
channel 19)

Here in Mansfield we have an impressive amount and EVERTHING seems to
have some snow on it.

Puts me in the mood to wrap presents and decorate the house for the

Temps dropped to the current temp of 24, windchill of 11 and barometer
is still low, 29.65.

Forcast for overnight tonight is for 1-3 more inches.


We went caroling last night and the rain/mix started here about 5:30pm.

I woke up humming the Simon and Garfunkel tune..."a winters day. In a
deep and dark December......"

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:26 pm
Subject: Love it!!!!

It's like a postcard out there today.

Temp is still 24 and the lake effect snow is still coming down. Is
snowing from a different direction each time you look!

My kitties are always wanting to "escape" and I opened the door and they
gave me the "are you nuts?" look.

An inch today, 1-3 overnight, and 1 inch tommorrow.

Surfaces are kinda clear, all the rain/snow yesterday turned to ice.


I'm in the mood to "DECK THE HALLS WITH BOUGHS OF HOLLY" A friend
climbed into my attic and it is all sitting in my dining area. hahahaha

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:05 pm
Subject: 13 December, 2004 7:00 PM Snow Report

Date: 13 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 PM
12-Hour Snowfall: 9.4"
24-Hour Snowfall: 14.0"
Storm Total (36 Hours): 15.9"
Total Snow on Ground: 12"
Remarks: Light snow falling, 27 degrees F
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:13 pm
Subject: Snow Data

7 PM 12/13/04

New Snow = 3.3 inches past 12 hours
Snow Depth = 4 inches

Larry R. Huff
Munroe Falls Weather Station
257 Northmoreland Avenue
Munroe Falls, Ohio 44262
NWS Cooperative Weather Observer
Station Index # 33-8062-3

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:40 pm
Subject: Snowfall

I've had 1.7 inches the past 12 hours as of 7 p.m. with two inches
on the gound with moderate snow. The county salted/cindered the
roads late this morning but are completly snow covered again.
Several accidents throughout the area.

Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N
Wayne County

Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:52 pm
Subject: Re: Snowfall

Lakewood has received 3.7 inches of snow for 24-hour period ending at
8 PM. It has been snowing lightly most of the evening with a few
moderate snow showers from time to time. Wouldn't be surprised if I
picked up another 0.1-0.2 inch in the past hour and a half.

Areas of snow continue to originate over Lake Erie and move inland.
The heaviest snow is falling over parts of Lorain county, Geauga
county, Lake county, and Ashtabula county at this time (9:30 PM).

A gusty northwest wind to around 30 MPH off the warm Lake Erie is
keeping my temperature elevated (currently, it's 31 degrees).


Date: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:34 pm
Subject: Better them than us...

Up on the lakeshore to the NE of Cleveland...........18 inches has
fallen and they still got overnight to go yet.

I like snow, but not that much at one time.

Most of OH has gotten some and ice caused many accidents earlier today.

It's 19 degrees here and the barometer is 30.03 and obviously rising.

Akron, Cleveland, Canton are just a few cities that are getting nailed
pretty hard.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:56 am
Subject: Snow Data

Date: 14 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 AM
12-Hour Snowfall: 1.7"
24-Hour Snowfall: 5.0"
Storm Total (48 Hours): 6.1"
Total Snow on Ground: 4"

Larry R. Huff
Munroe Falls 1SW
Summit County

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:01 am
Subject: 14 December, 2004 7:00 AM Snow Report

Date: 14 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 AM
12-Hour Snowfall: 6.7"
24-Hour Snowfall: 16.1"
Storm Total (48 Hours): 22.6"
Total Snow on Ground: 18"
Remarks: Light snow falling, 22 degrees F
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:04 am
Subject: Brunswick, Medina County Snow

12 hour snowfall: 2"
24 hour snowfall: 5.5"
Snow depth: 5.5"
Amber Dalakas
Brunswick 2 NE
Medina County
8 a.m.

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:52 am
Subject: School Day Forcast

If the parents could pry the kids out of a nice warm bed, they awoke to
14 degees with a wind chill of 1, yes, I said 1.

I really haven't noticed it at all. Just put more clothes on after I
got out of the therapy pool.

According to Channel 6 in Columbus, Mansfield was the lowest actual

Cleveland and east along the shoreline is really buried.

We have a pretty good snow here. Will measure later. Still snowing,
at the present time out of the north.

Most schools in the snow belt got a SNOW DAY and most of the rest of us
to down below Columbus got a 1-2 hour delay.

Reason? BLACK ICE.

My first acceleration of the day sent me sliding a tad
plowing yet in the complex.

Was surprised to see it on the roads. Up until last night they were
insisting the pavement was too warm to stick.

One more get out for the day and then it's home and decorate some more.

I wish we could snowball fight.

KRISTEN....saw a reporter on TWC doing snow angels and thot of you. He
was somewhere in NYState that got all the snow from the lake.

I heard my auntie in Paradise MI got buried .. big time.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:57 pm
Subject: Storm Totals

We ended up with 4 inches of the lake effect snow. So fluffy. Drifts
up to my knee tho around the bushes.

It really isn't all that bad now that the sun came out. High today
was 20 and now it is starting to plummet as the sun sets. It's 17
degrees, barometer high at 30.13 and winds only 4 mph.

Looks like snow continuing around Cincy and in the Ashtabula Co area.

SEND THAT STUFF DOWN TO MANSFIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm confused. Got my electric bill today and it had gone down to
$30.00. I guess we haven't had much of winter till this past weekend.
I am very protected here. I face east and am surrounded on 3 sides.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:47 pm
Subject: ?

I'm confused. The met on Channel 4 in Columbus just said that their
snow is from Lake Michigan.

Kind of a stretch isn't it?

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:48 pm
Subject: 14 December, 2004 7:00 PM Snow Report

Date: 14 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 PM
12-Hour Snowfall: 5.9"
24-Hour Snowfall: 12.6"
Storm Total (60 Hours): 28.5"
Snow on Ground: 21"
Remarks: Light flurries, 21 degrees F
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:13 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] ?

The snow that we get in the nothwest Ohio& sometimes Columbus . is from
Lake Michigan.Most of our snowfall is from Low pres. or Lake Michigan.
Bonni4-E Ottawa

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:25 pm
Subject: Re: ?

Hi Pam:

Not in this particular situation. The winds from an upper air trough
that is to the east of us now is what gave parts of Ohio their snow
from Lake Erie and Lake Michigan. Winds will become more westerly as
it moves further east. If you go to a radar site now you will see a
band of snow moving south running from central Michigan, through
western Ohio and south into Kentucky and West Virginia.

I had 2.2 inches of snow from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. today putting almost
five inches on the ground. Temperature at 8 p.m. here was 15
degrees. The dewpoint temperature is about 12 degrees so I don't
expect the temperature to go much lower.

Wooster 7N

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:47 pm
Subject: Snow Pictures

I took some pictures today of the 28"+ snowfall we had up here. I keep trying to
attach and send them to the group but
the emails keep getting bounced back as undeliverable. Yahoo groups must have an
extremely small size limit to their
emails. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how I can send these pictures to the
group or make them available for
viewing in some other way?
Doug Brady
Hambden Twp.

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:59 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Snowfall


As of 7 AM this morning, I had received 4 inches of snow. It has snowed
through the day on and off and I am guessing that by tomorrow morning I will
show 2-3 more inches.

Gary L
Ravenna 1SE
(Portage County)

Date: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:07 pm
Subject: snowfall for Thompson 5 SW

Snowfall for today here was 13.3". Yesterday's total was 14.0".
That makes 27.3" for the two days. Tonight I measured 21" in depth.
The liquid equivelent was 1.21" for the two days.

Thompson 5 SW (Northern Geauga Co.)

Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:55 am
Subject: Re: ?

I've had a relatively unimpressive 0.7 inches of snow over the past
couple days. Yesterday a rather strong snow band set up over the
northern and eastern suburbs giving a good inch to some. Examination
of the radar showed these were streamers of moisture off Lake
Michigan. Not all that uncommon. We have been known to get an inch
or 2 from lake effect. The huge snow amounts in West Virginia are
associated with in part lake moisture being lifted by the mountains.
Some ski resorts in West Virginia average over 100 inches of snow a
year. Of course it's not all from the lakes.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:28 am
Subject: 15 December, 2004 7:00 AM Snow Report

Date: 15 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 AM
12-Hour Snowfall: 1.1"
24-Hour Snowfall: 7.0"
Storm Total (72 Hours): 29.6"
Snow on Ground: 20"
Remarks: Very Light flurries, 20 degrees F
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:28 am
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Re: Snow Pictures

Also, If you don't have web space of your own to
upload pictures on, take a look at a free location
like , although they have a
1 mb limit on individual image size.


Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:34 pm
Subject: A glimpse into the future...

O.K. now that wintry weather has arrived how long will it last
before any meaningful moderation sets in? A glance at the models is
showing "no time soon". It looks like temperatures are going to
average below normal through Christmas weekend according to the
medium-range models I've been looking at.

Particularly cold periods are showing up Sunday night and Monday and
again late next week. It's looking more and more that most areas of
northeast Ohio are going to see a white Christmas this year :).

Lakewood ended up with 4.5 inches of fluff from this past lake-
effect episode. Not bad for the west-side :). I can't fantom the
outcome if Cleveland city proper actually received some of the
totals that Geauga county experienced! I'd bet the city would shut
down for several days to a week!

Nice and sunny out there today. Temperatures have been running in
the upper 20's much of the afternoon. Since the atmospheric "fan"
is on low speed today (little wind), it's actually a nice
afternoon! It's great to see the sunshine, especially this time of
year since we spend so much of the time in a dark "tunnel".


Date: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:54 pm
Subject: 24 Hour Snowfall for Ravenna 1SE

My 24 hour snowfall for the period ending at 7 AM this morning (12-15-04) was 3
inches. I currently have
6.5" on the ground. Liquid equivalent of the snow was .09". Pretty light and
fluffy stuff!!

Gary L
Ravenna 1SE (Portage County)

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:39 am

Very interesting weather scenario setting up by this weekend. NWS
says still much uncertainty but more model agreement here for
extended accumulating snow event Sat night through Monday followed by
bitter cold air. Last night for. discussion worded light snow
accumulations. This AM changed to moderate possible (no definition
provided). For. discussion also says highs early next week may
struggle to rise out of teens with lows in single digits. Potential
for east coast bomb IF IF IF IF IF storm hugs the coast. The
forecast of anyone who makes too big a deal of this this early may
bomb if storm moves out to sea! Stay tuned! Looks interesting for
all of us, even those of us outside the lake effect area who still
have bare ground. With strong north winds behind this storm even if
storm generated snows fizzle this could be a big lake effect event.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:46 am
Subject: 20 Snow Pictures

Many thanks to Don Keating. He was able to shrink down my pictures of this
week's lake effect snow to a more
manageable size. Consequently, I have added all 20 to the OhioWx photo album in
a folder called "December 12-15
Lake Effect Storm".
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Geauga County

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:46 am

Models seem to be backing off truly significant snow outside lake
effect areas although some quite cold air will still flow in.
Bengals/Buffalo game here Sunday looks to be windy and near 20F with
a chance of flurries, light snow and/or snow showers. Ah, football

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:21 am
Subject: Sunny

Bright sun and cold temps rule here today. Overnight low of 22 degrees.

Theyve changed our forcast AGAIN for Monday and we could see the first
goose egg of the season! 00000000000000

Put an extra sweater on and out the door I goes on.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:58 am
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Digest Number 1637


Ron, yep they did back off.

We may see ZERO on Monday morning.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:11 am
Subject: CORN Report

View Bob Davis' CORN Report at:

Larry Huff

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Digest Number 1637

Hi Pam;
Hey, thanks for explaining what CC's were. I get it now. I'm like, DUH! OK.
Regarding overnight lows of near zero. Yea, I can see that, where you have snow
cover, but here in Newcomerstown as
of this afternoon we have zero snow cover. At any rate zero degrees is getting
down there.
Take care Pam and thanks for the reply.
Don Keating

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1637

Well, they backed off this A.M. but it seems to be back again. With
1 inch forecast overnight Sat. and more light snow Sunday 2 inches
sure seems possible. In fact the forecast discussion mentions an
event total of several inches being possible. Even down here the
Monday A.M. low is to be 0 to 5F, in part because Don's missing
snowcover link is expected to be in place by then. Warmer air with
mixed ppt for mid-week then it looks like more cold. The 8 to 14 day
outlook is quite cold although SST's may be pointing to a warm-up by
the early part of the new year. The rest of 2004 looks rather wintry
unless I am missing something as I sometimes do.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1637

No, Ron, I don't think you're missing anything :). I agree with you,
the rest of 2004 is looking COLD! I wouldn't be surprised if you pick
up an inch of snow with the arctic front Saturday night and a couple
inches more from lake-effect snow bands emminating off Lake Michigan
late Sunday afternoon through Sunday night. We'll need to watch
around mid-week next week as models are showing a storm developing
over the Gulf Coast States that may move through the Appalachian
Mountains. This may have the potential to bring a widespread general
snow to many parts of Ohio.

In the meantime; however, I think parts of north central and northeast
Ohio is going to get clobbered by heavy snow Sunday through Sunday
night. With a northerly flow setting up I think even the west side of
Cleveland may share in heafty snows as well as down by Pam's way
(Mansfield). We'll have to see..but my weather intuition is telling
me this could be a BIG one for us up here!

Any other thoughts?


Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:20 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1637

Hello All,

Have been looking at maps the past hour and will have to side with
most of what you folks are saying. Although the GFS and ETA are
somewhat similar they both seem to disagree somewhat on the
placement of low pressure off the east coast which to may help back
things up and induce a tighter pressure gradiant for our area if
that materializes come Sunday. The ETA shows a more northerly wind
component with winds of 30 knots at the 850mb level by Sunday night
which would give those of us in the more southerly direction of the
lake more snow than the usual lake effect east of Cleveland.

Snow depth has trickled down to a trace in general here by late this
afternoon and all be forgotten sometime tomorrow I'm sure. I'm not
the snow lover I once was when I was a kid but I say bring it on
late next week for all the kids (and adults) to try out their new
winter sports gear come Christmas.

Wooster 7N

Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:33 pm
Subject: OH MY GOSH!!!!!!

ALL of Cleveland stations are reporting a forcast of up to 24 inches
could fall by Monday morning in the NE part of the state.

I couldn't beleive my ears so I switched channels and they said the SAME

I was afraid to look at the map to see what we could get. hahahahaha

Columbus OH is expecting bad wx tommorrow and Sunday. Figures....I'm
going down on Sunday.

So tommorrow I go into a storm-a-coming mode here just in case the wx
forcast is dead on.


Pam in North Central OH

From: "Jon Seymour"  
Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:07 am
Subject: RE: [OhioWx] OH MY GOSH!!!!!!

This Sunday is just the beginning as there are several more chances of snow
lined up for next week and another arctic outbreak that may be even stronger
than Sunday-Monday. Big change from the 60s at the beginning of the month

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:06 am

Sat. AM they're back to saying little accumulation here. Apparently
each model run is showing less moisture. However, with a strong
fetch off the lakes I think an inch would be possible and even 2 in
some spots from lake snow squalls. We got that much earlier this
week from lake effect but soil temperatures were so warm it lasted
about as long as it usually does in April. Soil temperatures are
cooler now and with cold air temperatures in place snow showers will
accumulate a little better.

It sounds like N. OH may get plastered. I checked my favorite
vacation destination, Holmes County, and they are forecast to get 3
to 6 inches. Sure wish I was headed to Charm!

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:48 am

Ron, I think if they get the 3-6 inches there calling for down there
the biggest challenge will be for the Amish driving their horse and
buggy trying to keep away from the idiots driving those four-wheeled
machines into the ditch or each other (ha,ha).

As of this morning there calling for 4-6 inches around here
tomorrow. Wind chill could be brutal. Stay warm.

Wooster 7N

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:47 am
Subject: 8 to 12 inches on Sunday?!!

WOW!! The NWS in Cleveland is calling for 8 to 12 inches of snow in
the CLEVELAND area for Sunday with possibly additional heavy amounts
Sunday night!!!!!!

Checking the maps, it just might happen! Northerly fetch of bitterly
cold, arctic air moving over BOTH Lakes Huron and Erie combined with
a strong upper-level disturbance! The models are dropping the
moisture some, but with the air being so cold it won't take much to
saturate it especially with the Lakes being so warm for the season.

This is going to be REALLY exciting!!
I hope it happens :)!!!


Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] 8 to 12 inches on Sunday?!!

I know you must be very excited about this up coming
event, and for your sake, I hope your wish comes true.
To me, I don't care because I am on vacation for the
next 2 weeks, so let it snow baby!
If I am reading the models correctly, it looks like
we could see another one mid to late next week, but
not as severe, but the wind will be there.
I guess the only thing about this up coming event is
the wind. If the powers out, so is the heat and my
So Matt, do you think with the snow and high winds
expected, do you see a blizzard warning setting up for
tomorrow? I think this watch we're under will turn
into a winter storm warning or even a blizzard
The earlier forecast discussions were saying
possibly thunder snow with this storm. Better charge
up the old cam corder and digital camera.

Rich Rabatin
Ravenna 1E
Portage County

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:09 pm
Subject: It's entering....

The snow is just coming into the NW corner of OH at this time.

Don at Weatherfun.....Ashland Co. is the borderline for a STORM WATCH
that has been issued. Everything to the NE is going to get buried.

It looks like 12-24 inches of snow on the lakefront and down to the
Akron-Canton area, and 4-8 everywhere else that is under the WATCH.

No warnings or watches here or expected.

Lady Lake Erie is getting ready to do her thing once again. WAHOOOOOO

They have assured us that we will have a very white christmas!!!!!!
That is all that counts...................

Temps are 31 and the barometer is 29.96 and FALLING.

Have my pre-storm list done .. just in case.

Those on the OH group.....come on up for some fun!

Pam in North Central OH

From: "Phillip Higley"  
Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Digest Number 1638

I will believe it when I see!.In the Northwet Ohio. we are having cloudy
skies NO snow.Temp 36f dew point 28F rel hum 75% baro. 29.67 F
Dec 13 snow .5 &Dec 14 snow .3 All melted .
Ottawa 4-E

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:38 pm
Subject: Snow Potential

I was looking at the 12z (8 a.m.) ETA and GFS model run and looking
at the 30-hour map putting it out to early Sunday afternoon. Both
models now are very similar and the GFS model, which showed upper
winds more northwesterly yesterday have come around to a more
northerly direction like the ETA.

I guess my personal summation based upon the current model runs is I
would expect things to really kick in by early Sunday afternoon and
see at least snow advisories be extended further south and west than
what watches/advisories are out now.

For some of you travelers don't forget some kind of emergency travel
kit to take with you.


Wooster 7N

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:33 pm
Subject: Winter mix

Columbus OH is getting a wintery mix right now. There is a big blob of
pink over Columbus. They are 60 miles to my south.

Bands of snow stretch from MI to roughly Morrow CO which is directly
south of me.

I can't tell what's going on here.....just that the pavement is wet.

CC's are 35 degrees and the barometer continues to fall and sits at

I just looked at a close up of the radar and it shows a HUGE mass of
white heading right for OH. WAHOOOOOOOO

Forcast is mild for Mansfield....1-2 inches by morning.

So if the wxman says that, we will get buried in it or have tropical air
move into the region.....JUST KIDDING.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:19 pm
Subject: Map

Actually what is on the radar map now is disapating but the heaviest
snow is coming after midnight thru Monday am.

The Cleveland tv stations are starting to run the crawline and map
showing what is going on up in the NE corner of OH.

Still up to 2 feet could accumalate there!

Pam in North Central OH

From: "Jon Seymour"  
Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:06 pm
Subject: RE: [OhioWx] ON AGAIN, OFF AGAIN

Yes, all the OV offices effectively abandoned much snowfall accumulation
this morning. However, there's a nice batch of snow moving south from
Michigan and after that, lake-effect for much of the area. I think all the
offices were rather premature in their backing off. I would expect at least
an inch or two here in Columbus. The same thing happened during the last
event... forecast was for no accumulation and nothing more than flurries.
Instead we had almost 2" officially at the airport and near 3" in some spots
just to the west. This event is more significant in both synoptic and
lake-effect. Oh, and the mid-week storm looks to be snow, not rain as
forecasted. ILN went head over heels for the GFS solution, but the strength
of the next cold wave is being underdone. In fact, afternoon models are
showing colder solutions, meaning lots of snow for Tuesday through
Christmas. And cold as well.

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:49 pm

SST trends have been hinting at a warm up after the first of the
year. However, I just noted that accu-weather has highs in the 40's
and 50's in Cincinnati for the week before New Year Day. Any

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:16 pm
Subject: Re: 8 to 12 inches on Sunday?!!


I didn't think you liked snow all that much. But if I was wrong then
you get to join the "cool" people (lol). How does this system
compare with the 13-14th event? We got around 30" total from that
one (and the forecast for that one wasn't that exciting either). I
wanted to figure out if we're in for another burial.


Date: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:21 pm
Subject: photo and current snow

I just put up a photo from the 13th-14th snow event in my folder
(vance) in the photos section.

Light snow is falling currently. The temp had been hovering around
36 degrees but has started to fall off. It's 33 now. Despite the
mild temperature the snow has been accumulating on my snowboard which
is sitting on top of a 10" snowpack.


Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:01 am

Am up early since it will probably take an hour to find my car!


For once the wx forcast is dead on and we have snow, blowing snow, ice
and dangerous wind chills.

Our high was at midnight at 32 and now is 12 with a wind chill BELOW
zero and a barometer of 29.87!

Now they say 2-3 inches here.

Poor Columbusites are freaking out! They have a whole fraction of an
inch! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Conditions at game time for the Browns is very very dangerous. Anyone
who goes to the game has to be NUTS!

The stadium is on the lakefront and temps of 16, snow and windchills
below zero are expected.

Gotta and then the roads should be ok to head to
Just sitting here looking at my wardrobe to see how many clothes I can
wear and still move.....hahahahahahahahahaha

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:52 am
Subject: Temperature Drop/Snowfall

Measured the snowfall on the snowboard at 7 am this morning and had
1.2 inches. Looked to be a lot more but a lot of blowing snow going
on. Snow intensity has really picked up; down to half-mile at times
with many roads beginning to cover up.

Windchill is beginning to hit the sub-zero mark. The temperature
between 4 a.m. and 8 a.m. went from 32 to 15 degrees.

Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N

Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:40 am
Subject: Snow & Wind & More

YIKES!! What a shock, but I guess it was expected. When I went to bed
last night shortly after midnight the thermometer read 37 degrees.
When I awoke shortly before 8 AM it was already down to 17. Now it is
at 13 degrees (@10:30 AM) with a NW wind gusting to 30-35 MPH. Its
been snowing steadily since I got up this morning. Trying to measure
precisely is impossible with all the blowing snow, but I figure we've
had about 2 inches so far. Forecasts up here are calling for 3-8
inches today with another 3-6 inches tonight :).

Vance, I'm as big a "snow lover" as you season :). I may sing
another tune after St. Patrick's Day :). I love our four seasons here
and snow is a part of them..bring it on!! Also, I don't think this
event will be as big in your area as the one early last week. I think
the snow this time will be shared by a lot more folks.

Phil, I've actually lived in northwestern Ohio (in the Toledo &
Norwalk areas) for a time in my life back in the 1980's. It's nice out
there, very peaceful. I worked two jobs at the time (just like I do
now) and one was on a farm. It was a very nice experience.

As far as the CLE Browns are concerned..I'm a fan, and a true fan does
not desert a team when it is down and out. They'll improve in a few
seasons. As far as I'm concerned, they are still in the "rebuilding"
process. Oh, by the way, Pam, I was at the Browns/Raiders AFC Playoff
game back in January 1980. Weather conditions during the game were 0
degrees F with a wind chill factor of -40 F (on the "old wind chill
system"). I was drinking heavily :) (as any good American boy at a
football game does) and had my shirt off with hundreds of other fans.
Crazy, yeah, just a little :)...I consider it the "joys of youth"!

Happy holidays all!


Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:46 am
Subject: latest storm report

I'm not watching the Browns game today because I just don't want to
get too depressed!!

SO far I've got 5.5 inches for the storm (as of my 9:15am snow
report). Visibility has be consistently under 1/4 mi. The temp. is
currently 13 and going down!!


Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:04 pm

As to what SST's namely the North Atlantic Oscillation and the PNA as
discussed in the Climate Prediction Center discussion.


Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:54 pm

Hi Ron:

I won't even venture going out that far. I'll stick my neck out as
far as Thursday though. The storm Matt mentioned a day or so ago was
is still showing up on this mornings ETA and GFS models but the
center of the Low on both models was shown going west of Ohio. There
was also a 40 knot jet max pushing some 40-degree surface
temperatures over parts of southern and eastern Ohio by then. Unless
later models show the Low taking a track further east before getting
closer to Ohio it could be a rain or rain/snow event depending what
part of the state your in. If there is some cold enough areas at the
surface with warmer temps aloft it might be some freezing rain. We
shall see.

Cold night tonight; it was 4 degrees at 7 p.m. with the windchill
getting down to -15. Only two inches so far the past 24 hours but
would expect more since it looked like the snow bands were beginning
to come from a more northerly direction.

Wooster 7N

Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:09 pm
Subject: Winter Skies

The other thing I was going to say was I saw a sun pillar and
rainbow in the western sky late this afternoon around an hour before
sunset. It was only a partial rainbow.
Looked pretty neat with some light flurries falling in combination
with the snow on the ground.


Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:57 pm
Subject: Blizzard Bowl

Well, the Browns played in an almost white out today up on the

I couldn't believe what I was seeing!

Going to Columbus wasn't bad, the sun was out and roads were clear.
Didn't have any road snow until we got in Mansfield. Well, of course.

We had enough snow here to have the plow come in the complex.

The big problem now is the cold! WIND CHILL ADVISORY is up overnight
and temps are -3 now with a chill of -16.


The good old Saturn kinda cranked slow this evening.

Trip to Cleveland tommorrow is OFF due to what is going on and we are
going to wait till January.

Snow coming supposedly on Tuesday.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:47 am

Mid-week storm looks impressive if rather difficult to pin down.
Most forecasters are not committing to a more westerly track as
mentioned by Jack but can't commit to much of anything at this
point. Jack's scenario is certainly a good bet but so are a lot of
things. What do others think? One thing for sure--this looks to be
a significant low with a good draw of moisture as opposed to the
series of clippers we have seen. Local forecasts are mentioning rain
phasing to snow with a significant ice event possible. Snow
forecasts are a band of 3 to 6 inches...somewhere (all this from NWS
this AM).

It seems to me that these strong southern systems like to curve left
along their track often leaving us with less snow than in early runs
(which in fact would end up resembling what Jack mentioned!).

Lots of time on this one but an important forecast for travalers. My
brother and his family are driving from Annapolis, MD, to St. Louis,
MO, later this week.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:54 am

The forecast NWS finally settled on turned out to be close. Only 0.2
inch here early Sunday. However, we got a quick burst which melted
then re-froze leaving all paved surfaces glazed in ice. We had a
mess getting things cleared at church in the AM including equipement
problems. Standing on the lot before it was treated was nearly


Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:45 am
Subject: Record Low

I had a record low at my location of -4 degrees set at 5:53 a.m.
this morning breaking the previous record for the date of 1 above
set in 1991. The long standing record for the area kept elsewhere
is -9 set in 1901.

All kinds of creaking and cracking in the house last night between
the cold temperatures and wind.

Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:02 am

Well, today is a great day for polar bears in Mansfield. hahahahahahaha

Overnight low of -9 degrees and we are having a heat wave at -6

Golly, with tommorrows forcasted high of 33, we can wear shorts.

Cancelled the trip to the lakeshore....don't know if it's possible to
get there to start with.

The sun is out and I can see my car soooooooooo, I'm going out in an
hour to start it up. Have an errand for a senior citizen to do.

Get to wear the heavy duty boots today for the first time.


More than a white christmas this year.

Only one school in Mansfield has a SNOW DAY and that is St. Pete's
because they have a campus style school.
Many closings and delays over the state.


Life goes on, but on an extra sweater.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:58 am
Subject: Record Low and Snowfall

Hello Group;
Well compared to Pam's morning low of -9 degrees, it was a balmy -1 degree here
(LOL) and that established a record
low. The previous record low was 10 set back in 1996.
Snowfall yesterday was a modest 1.6". With last nights clear skies and minor
snow cover, the two things that kept us
from really dropping down there were the lack of a deep snow cover and calm
winds. Winds stayed around 5 to 10 mph
most all night.
As far as the developing mid-week storm system... I'll chime in on that later
tonight or tomorrow.
Currently mostly sunny with 14 degrees and calm winds. Pressure is falling at
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:02 pm
Subject: Some History of OH wx

We have had wind chills up to -20 since this air came into OH.

We are up to 8 degrees now and the barometer is DROPPING for our next wx
event tonight!

I get a feeling it's going to be a loooong siege for us. I have to go
out tommorrow no matter what. At least the temps will be in the 30's.

I did see a piece on the news about the temps and conditions in 1983
around this time of year.

I was on Rt 71 on 12-24 and it was -18 actual temp--when my car blew
it's engine. Swell.

Last night they said that night around the time I was freaking out on
what to do.....the wind chills were -50 degrees!!!!

Impressive huh?

A trip down memory lane.....actually one I'd rather forget......LOL

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:43 pm
Subject: Wed-Thu Event

Hi Group;
I've been browsing some maps and what I see looks fairly impressive. Seems like
a deepening low pressure system will
be located near central Mississippi on Wednesday evening around 7 p.m. eastern
time and by Thursday morning at 7
a.m. eastern time, they are projecting the center of the low to be in central
Ohio near Columbus with a pressure of 991
mb. My guess would be highs on Wednesday will be in the mid 40's to lower 50's
somewhere in SE OH and into WV
but places like NW OH will possibly see high's only in the upper 20s to lower
30s. As the low rockets NE'ward it'll pull
in much colder air and change any precipitation to all snow by Thursday night.
Friday and Saturday look frigid, like
today. If this works out right, I see someone having a band of heavy snow (6-
12"+) from synoptic snows in extreme
Just my opinion. I certainly reserve the right to change my mind on this as a 50
mile jog either way could mean the
world of difference.
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: MORE WINTER

Ron & Group:

It's too early to tell, but I'm leaning toward what Jack thinks on
this next storm. This morning's GFS run has the LOW tracking directly
across OH early Thursday morning with rather strong warm air
advection (WAA) spreading through eastern Ohio as it passes through.
The track in this morning's run is further to the west than what was
shown yesterday morning and appears to run close to the baroclinic
zone (the zone separating warm air and cold air) that is forecast to
be in place.

If the track across OH verifies (and I'll go with that for now). I
think we'll be looking at primarily a rain event for eastern OH with
the precipitation possibly starting as a period of snow, sleet, or
freezing rain. The forecast for western OH is tricky. Since the LOW
is expected to be a "TROF-type" system, I think frozen precipitation
output in the cold sector of the storm will be somewhat limited.
Since the LOW is expected to track near the I-71 corridor (according
to the latest GFS), the best chance for accumulating snow would be
over extreme northwestern Ohio. More of a wintry mix (mix of snow,
ice, and rain) may occur within 100 miles west of the storm track
through OH. The 5,000 foot temperature forecasts I'm seeing on the
GFS aren't really conductive for snow except over the far
northwestern tip of OH.

We got down to 8 degrees this morning in Lakewood. A "heat wave"
compared to Pam's -9, Jack's -4, and Don's -1. With a northerly
wind, we bask in warmth near the Lake Erie shoreline this time of the
year :). I ended up with only 2.5 inches of snow from the "storm"
and am VERY disappointed!! Amounts of 6-10 inches occurred not too
far to my south over North Royalton, Hinckley.


Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:36 pm
Subject: Humourous side of things...

[picks up microphone]

Hello folks!

Yesterday I got my skis out for the first time in three years.
Strapped on those bindings, went out the door, and whadda ya know...
Couldn't move!

Seems it was too cold to ski! The white stuff just stuck to the bottom
of the skis and I went nowhere... I thought that wasn't possible
outside of the polar circles!

But really, I have good news.

Tomorrow it will be forty degrees warmer.

Here's the bad news: It will be forty degrees.

[end slapstick]

Seriously, guys, I hope the weather event on Friday or Saturday isn't
too bad... I'm scheduled to fly out of Hopkins at high noon on
Christmas day. It would not be fun to have my flight cancelled,
considering how we managed to get my brother-in-law (from Tucson), my
parents and sister (from New York city) and me (from Cleveland)
scheduled to arrive at Tampa Int'l Airport within an hour-and-a-half of
each other!

Cheers & merry Christmas,

From: "Jon Seymour"  
Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:10 pm

Seems like a lot of people here are thinking of a low track through Central
Ohio based purely on the GFS, which now is the only model to really show
such a thing. All others have the low to the southeast, in southeast Ohio
or even into western and northern West Virginia. I-71 corridor, Columbus,
Central Ohio, etc could all see significant snows out of this. Northeast
Ohio would not be in the bullseye unless you hug the GFS. It phases the
storm and that's the only reason for the farthest north and west track while
the other models are weaker waves.

Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:20 pm

Hi Jon;
Just to inform you, I based my prediction off of the MRF 10 day models, not the
GFS. As soon as the isobars begin to
develop around this low I'll then base my track estimate on pure instinct,
experience and gut feeling. All of which have
served me fairly well in the past. Take care.
Don Keating

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:29 am

Don, I wasn't talking about anyone in particular, but many people ARE basing
their storm track on the GFS which has been through Central Ohio near
Columbus. Cold air has been difficult to scour out this evening. It's
nearly 1:30AM and temps were supposed to be well into the 20s by now as ILN
is calling for AOA 30 degrees by daybreak. Temp in Columbus is STILL 16, 2
degrees lower than the afternoon high. Evening sounding indicated that the
arctic air is 3000 ft thick at this location and not going to be easy to
wipe out. The projected high today is mid-40s. Instinct for me would
indicate that something is wrong with that forecast and that if the cold
remains stronger, the storm is further southeast and what falls for many
will be less rain than snow. But we'll see. Hope that everyone who loves
snow sees lots of it from this one. Someone looks to easily get into the
double digits for snowfall accumulation. A rare event in Ohio outside the
lake-effect areas.

Regardless of what happens with this storm, Christmas looks VERY cold, even
moreso than today. Lows well below 0 (especially with snowcover) and highs
in the single digits look like a good bet.


Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:35 am

Here in Cincinnati it was only 21F last evening but has rocketed up
to 37F by dawn! New forecasts I am reading have low tracking farther
SE with heavy snow along and west of I-71. NWS mentioning 6 to 10
for here and a winter storm watch is posted. Rather bold for a storm
which has not yet formed in west Texas!

Ppt type has little to do with scouring out of cold air currently in
place since new boundary will move down and set up over OH valley.

As for me I read forecasters' model analysis (I guess that's
cheating) so I don't rely on any one model. In fact I don't "rely"
on much of anything considering the previous post about how mother
nature doesn't read or follow models, and we all know she doesn't!

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:20 am
Subject: Another Ohio Storm Coming

We are under our first WINTER STORM WATCH for snow! snow! and more snow!

A storm is/will be coming out of the Gulf and expected to hit OH
sometime overnight.


Depending on the course of it, it could turn out to be one of the famous
OH RT 71 Corridor storms.
Mansfield is on that corridor.

So, after my already scheduled activities I will do what errands I had
to do tommorrow.



Up to 6 inches or more expected.

Temps to be around mid-to the mid 30's for today's high.


Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:04 am
Subject: A storm's coming..but how bad will it be?

O.K. I've just checked out the model runs this morning and will
concur that a decent snow event is shaping up over parts of Ohio
tomorrow through Thursday morning. Will this be a critically, major
snowstorm for Ohio..probably not (famous last words), but will it be
significant? Yes.

It appears that the GFS may be too quick in phasing energy needed to
produce a significant LOW along the baroclinic zone extending from
the eastern Great Lakes to the Gulf States and the model may be
suffering from feedback errors. With that said, I'm leaning a little
more towards the weaker solution given by the ETA this morning. Even
with this weaker solution, multiple frontal waves (of about 1013 mb)
are expected to develop along the baroclinic zone from near the
Alabama Gulf Coast into central PA. Impressive overrunning
precipitation is expected to break out west of the baroclinic zone
into OH as shown in part by the fairly impressive QPFs shown by the

However, despite what the ETA is showing, I think the model may be
overdoing the QPF. I'm going to compromise and say that a 4 to 8
inch snowfall is likely from Cincy northeast to the western suburbs
of CLE from Wed through Wed. night and this will be the area of
heaviest snowfall. East of I-71, the precip will start as snow then
change to a mix of snow, ice, and rain for awhile late Wed. afternoon
into Wed. evening before changing back to all snow towards midnight.
Snowfall east of I-71 will likely be in the 3 to 6 inch range.

In western OH, snowfall amounts will drop off rather sharply west of
a Sandusky/Port Clinton-Dayton line.

That's my "stab in the dark" for now.

Any other comments?!

Pam, just to let you know that I'm doing my part by using my
birdfeeder to feed the squirrels :).


Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:23 am
Subject: Re: A storm's coming..but how bad will it be?

By NE OH lake region standards 4 to 8 may not seem huge but it is by
Cincinnati standards. The biggest daily snowfall in December here
over 130 years is 11 inches, then 10 inches, then 7.5 inches, then 7
inches, then 6.4 inches. I'm trying not to get too worked up
(unsuccessfully) since the hyped storms often don't materialize,
although we have had a few over the last several years which were
called quite well. Let's hope we don't get yanked around like we did
with this past weekend's system.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:27 am

Just an update on this old post...there appears to be a significant
pattern shift for next week with a trough in the west and a ridge in
the east. Rather stormy but much warmer. But first, of course, a
little more winter.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:40 am
Subject: Re: A storm's coming..but how bad will it be?


Yes, it could get interesting. Was looking at last nights GFS and
this mornings ETA also and won't repeat all you have said. I will
say, however, irregardless of how this storm pans out I think this
has or is a prime example of how computer models can change so
quickly and be in complete agreement or totally out of line when
looking too far down the road. Both the GFS and ETA models were
keeping the Low center just west of Ohio through the 00z December 20
runs. Now, the 00z December 21 GFS was taking the low center through
eastern Tennessee and up the Ohio Valley Thursday thru Friday and
this mornings ETA putting the center of the Low over the Ohio/West
Virginia border by around 7 a.m. Thursday morning.

Liquid amounts of .5 to almost 1.5 inches south and east of Toledo
does look to be much. The dividing line still looks to be a hair
south of the I-71 corridor between Cincy and Cleveland. That alone
(ice) could be a real problem.

My oldest son is coming up from Athens either Wednesday or Thursday.
Think I'll tell him to try and come earlier the better Wednesday and
come up I-77 instead of around Columbus and up 71.

Speaking of birds. We bird feeders out all over the place. I think
they eat better than we do around hear. We have a hawk that makes an
occasional visit and you talk about scatter! ha, ha.

Everyone keep their senses about them with all those crazy people
out there.

Wooster 7N

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:40 pm
Subject: YIKES!

Mansfield is expecting up to 10 inches of snow before it's all over on


The anti-snow machine is broke here in OH!

You would never know that it's coming...Currents are 34 degrees and
brilliant sun with barometer at 29.84.

GIVE ME A S.........S
GIVE ME A N..........N
GIVE ME AN O ...........O
GIVE ME A W...............W


Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:05 pm

It's looking like we are going to be in a "progressive" pattern for
awhile. Yes, it wouldn't surprise me to see a sizable warm-up next
week, but some of the long-range models I'm looking at are trying to
build a TROF back into the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley about a week and
half from now (hence a turn to colder again). It may be one of
those "see-saw" winters around here!


Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:16 pm
Subject: OH NO!

They've just revised the forcast: by Friday snow totals could
reach...........are you ready...................12 inches.

How we getting to Mom's on Friday?



Pam in North Central OH

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:53 pm
Subject: Wow... If this thing...

Hello Group;
I'm pleased to see that the NWS is forecasting along and higher than the
estimates of snowfall than what I was just
yesterday. However, if this thing doesn't develop into the storm that they're
predicting, alot of people are going to have
alot of egg on their faces. The following came from the NWS site for Richland
County (Mansfield). If this works out
Pam, you better have a snow blower!
Wednesday night. Snow. Heavy at times. Total snow accumulation of 10 to 18
inches. Lows in the lower 20s. North
winds 10 to 20 mph. Chance of snow 80 percent.
I only saw a couple of counties expecting freezing rain. I also see that many of
the SE OH counties are now under a
Flood Watch. The maps I just looked at do not have the LOW as intense as what
was expected yesterday, but they are
putting the center of the LOW pressure system over EC or SE OH as it moves
through this area.
Again, a shift of 50 miles either way, and that 10-18" of snow could be a major
ice storm. Same thing here, our mainly
rain event could become 10-18" of snow. As they say, keep up on the latest NWS
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:11 pm
Subject: 20"+ of Snow?... Major Ice Storm?...

Best snow event could have 20+ inches somewhere
along the Mansfield-Cleveland track through Friday.

Anyone see a significant ice storm event out
of this?

- Patrick

Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:24 pm
Subject: Checking current conditions...

So I have been monitoring WeatherUnderground (
which is apparently out of Univ. of Michigan. What I see so far is...

A band of humid air stretching from east Texas up here to northern Ohio
(60-70%) and scatter along the Texas/Louisiana border. There appears
to be an intense "something" in the Gulf. The LOW is over Dallas/Fort
Worth area (although it doesn't appear to be very deep as of yet) and
its frontal boundary looks to merge with that of a LOW over Canada.
The jet is moving roughly east-west and if I'm not mistaken most LOWs
follow the jet. But that merge with the frontal boundary could move it
north instead of east, and looking at dewpoints, they're getting high
along that Texas/Louisiana border.

So a combination of cold air with a burst of warmth from the Gulf...
Is this what's creating "explosive" forecasts?

Aside from our forecast of blizzard in the next couple of days, does
anyone foresee tornadic conditions developing in the Tennessee valley?
Or is the air too cold by now?

Forgive me if I'm just being redundant because I haven't learned all
the terms y'all have been using. I'm giving you my way of looking at


Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:22 pm
Subject: storm

Wow, check out this forecast of 10-18" for this storm, and its NOT
even a lake-effect event?! This would fall atop the packed 14"
(great skiing snow, BTW) already on the ground. Oh, yea, and THEN
the lake-effect snow starts. It's good because it just wouldn't seem
like Christmas without 2 or 3 feet of snow on the ground!!

I'm not sure, even if the storm does pan out as predicted, that we
would get the max amount becuase we're on the east side of the
eastern-most county in the warning area. However, from what some of
you are saying about the center of the LOW going further SE than some
models are predicting, it wouldn't be surprising if we did get close
to the max amount.

PS It's fun to watch the squirrels raid the birdfeeders. Actually,
judging from certain piles of debris I've occasionally spotted on the
snowpack, I think the squirrels ARE the birdfeeders (at least for
that pair of hawks inthe neighbor's tree). Them and the rabbits.


Date: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Checking current conditions...

--- In, "E. Stapleton"  wrote:
There appears
> to be an intense "something" in the Gulf.
The LOW is over Dallas/Fort
> Worth area (although it doesn't appear to be very deep as of yet)

True. I think it will phase with or become situated with one off the
Mississippi Gulf coast. The lastest RUC model appears to be showing
some good pressure falls by later tomorrow morning in that area.

> The jet is moving roughly east-west and if I'm not mistaken most
> follow the jet. But that merge with the frontal boundary could
move it
> north instead of east, and looking at dewpoints, they're getting
> along that Texas/Louisiana border.

It looks like there will be a split jet at the 850mb level; west to
east over the Ohio Valley and southwest to northeast over the
Tennessee Valley.

I think this is going to play a big part as to how far this will
enable the cold front to move through Ohio at the same time the Low
develops further and moves north along the front. I think the less
time it takes for the cold front to move through the greater the
coverage for snowfall. By some of what I'm seeing it may take the
better part of the day before significant snow begins.

> anyone foresee tornadic conditions developing in the Tennessee
> Or is the air too cold by now?

With a 30-degree contrast in temperature and an axis of maximum
temperatures (50-60 degrees) and dewpoints (45-50)and a LLJ with
winds greater than 20 knots it's quite possible. SPC's latest
outlook does not have a risk area in that particular region but does
say a few severe cells are possible embedded with some of the
thunderstorms associated with the squall line preceding the cold
front moving through their area. (Same cold front moving through our

Hope this helps. Maybe some others will chime in their. I think the
worst of this will be east of us by the time your flight leaves for
Dallas (?) this weekend.

Wooster 7N

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:06 am
Subject: IT'S HERE!!!!!!!!

Light rain overnight started to transition before 5AM and is now a
mix of light snow and sleet. Radar shows a lot of ppt to the west.
Surfaces are already covered with a thin layer of ice, sleet, and
snow. Temperature was 44F at midnight, 34F at 5AM and now 28F at
7AM. The top of the predicted accumulation range would be an all-
time December record for Cincinnati based on the official 130 year
record. Can you tell I'm excited?

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:14 am
Subject: Re: IT'S HERE!!!!!!!!

Surface reports from Bloomington, Indiana show moderate snow over the
past 3 observations with 0.5 mile visibility. Southern Indiana and
Kentucky socked in with impressive radar returns. Wow!!!!!!

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:08 am

WARNINGS are up for the winter storm that we've all heard about.

It has just started to snow here in the last 15 minutes!

I finished up my shopping last night and everyone must of had the same
idea. It was a mad house out there.

The storm IS the famous I-71 corridor variety.

We have only one closed school so far......ONTARIO which is one block
from me.

Andy from Weatherfun.....they just showed Dayton on a live feed on TWC
and it is very, very snowy down there.

At 9am I am calling to see if the doctor made it in for a 10am appt.


Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:46 am

Apparently 5 to 6 inches has already fallen near Dayton. About 2
inches here. New forecast is for 12 to 20 inches near Dayton and 7
to 13 here. Overall intensity has picked up here in the past hour.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:39 pm
Subject: Mansfield storm totals so far

Just got in from measuring in my front yard and we have 4.5 inches of
new snow.

Most of it had melted in yesterday's tropical event.....hahahahaha

The roads aren't bad YET. Only time I started to slide is when I gave
the car gas to fast.

No problems stopping, or going up or down the many hills here in

We've been shoveled and plowed out here in the apt complex once so far.

I got my fluid levels checked for my treck home on Friday morning.

Don't have to go out till 12:30 tommorrow.
I refuse to let the wx dictate my life.

My kitty is going NUTS over all the birds at the feeder.


Andy at wxfun: the weather channel is camped out in Dayton, so you
might want to go take a peek at what your Grandma is dealing with.


The kids get out 2 hours early for their holiday break and the Mayor of
the city said on the radio "I will not shut Mansfield down!" Don't
know about that one.

The radio station is playing surfer music ie. Beach Boys and Mama's and
the Papa's.

I'm singing "Oh nobody knows the trouble we're

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:14 pm
Subject: Emergency Snow Alert Issued

Crawford Co in OH has been put under a Level 1 snow emergency. This is
a bordering county to my direct west.

Ontario (one block from me) is under a PARKING BAN....get your car off
the street if you want to keep it from being towed.

The cancellations are starting to roll in for Mansfield.....churches,
school ball games, clinics, adult education.

We didn't have any services planned for the evening to start with so we
aren't included.

The snow just keeps falling and falling and falling and falling and

My last "chore" just got done......we have sub-zero temps moving in
while I will be gone and my neighbor has agreed to check in on the
kitties on Saturday.

The bird feeders need filling already so I will take a depth reading
when I go out later on.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:19 pm
Subject: ?

Will someone take the time to explain why........ if the storm is coming
from the SW.....why is it snowing from the north?

I must be really dumb.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: ?

Cold air is moving north to south at the surface. Warm air is over-
running cold air from the south, being lifted over the cold air, and
falling out as snow.


Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:33 pm
Subject: It's beginning to look a lot like...the Christmas blizzard of 2004

Just got home from work - da boss let me leave early after he went out to
shoot kids sledding and couldn't get back to the studio. The roads are in
absolutely atrocious condition - I wouldn't want to be one of our city
fathers or mothers today. I had to go to Auto Zone to pick up de-icer and a
wiper blade and it took me almost 3/4 of an hour to get to a store that's
just a few blocks from where I live and work. We have about 6" of the white
stuff on the ground and it's still coming down major big time.

Technology never ceases to amaze me. On the plus side, I used a snow blower
for the first time today. We bought a Toro electric model for the studio
(no place to store gas) and it worked very well. On the minus side, my cell
phone died yesterday (conveniently - I got to my local Radio Shack and
replaced it during the good weather) and when I got home, I found out that
my cordless had expired from old age. I got to my local mega drugstore
early this morning - 15 mph all the way - and replaced it.

For a look at what the roads around here look like, check out this link
from WKRC in Cincinnati. Just click on any one of the camera icons and
you'll see how it looks around here:

Attached is a photo that I just took of my back yard and the churchyard
beyond. The plow is going full speed ahead, so I guess they're still
planning to have choir practice tonight.

Everybody stay safe.

Middletown OH

From: Barb LaPierre  
Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:47 pm
Subject: Southwest Ohio snow accumulation prediction

From WXIX meteorologist Rich Apuzzo re the current storm:

The winter storm is upon us and everything is going as planned. As of
noon, 3 to 6 inches of snow has already hit southeast Indiana and a lot
more is on the way! I have heard from folks on the east side.Clermont and
Brown counties.who have not seen a flake, but radar shows that they are
about to get nailed. Everyone will get a good accumulation out of this
one, and the morning models are even more impressive with snow amounts. I
know you all have a lot going on with school closures, errands to run,
shopping to do, etc. so I will keep this email as brief as possible.

The storm center is just now forming near Houston, Texas, and once it does,
it will race northeast Buffalo, New York by midday tomorrow! That is the
worst (or best if you're me) possible track for snow for the Tri-State, and
it means we will likely have a record-breaking storm here by tonight and
early tomorrow. You may recall the pieces to my puzzle
yesterday.upper-level storm, moisture and arctic air...well, they're all
coming together now. The storm near Houston will bring amazing amounts of
tropical moisture north tonight. As of noon we're in the upper 20s around
the Tri-State, and temperatures are falling. The colder it gets outside,
the more snow the air will fall with this storm and this storm may be one
you remember the rest of your life. Immediately following the snow, bitter
cold air will rush into the region with highs in the low teens and lows
below zero Friday and Saturday, only rebounding to near 30 by Sunday.if
we're lucky.

If you're a snow-lover, fasten your seatbelts for this. I just looked at
the morning models and this storm is generating moisture amounts I have
never seen before with a winter storm, including the February storm from
1998 that dumped 18 inches here. Both of our major U.S. models are
producing 2 inches of liquid right over, and to the east and west of
Cincinnati! With a typical 10 to 1 ratio for snow, that would mean 20
inches! This storm will have about a 15 to 1 ratio by late tonight. If
you're doing the math at home, you know that we have the "potential" to see
more than 20 inches of snow, which would make this storm the largest in
Cincinnati history. Since the main precipitation type has been snow, and a
wintry mix seems less likely now, this could get very interesting.

The storm will pass by between midnight and 5 AM tonight then move quickly
to New York by lunchtime tomorrow. As the low gets close, there is the
possibility that some sleet or freezing rain will mix in east of
Cincinnati, but most areas will see blinding snow and the possibility of
thunder and lightning! The snow will taper off by midday tomorrow. Since
a half foot has already hit southeast Indiana, I predict that you folks
living there will see 16 to 20 inches of snow, with blowing snow by late
tonight. Cincinnati, areas just north and south, will get 10 to 15 inches
(though much more is possible) and areas east of Cincinnati will get 4 to 9
inches. If the models are correct, all of these numbers will go up.

Once again, tell everyone share this email with everyone you know and they
can even sign up to get there own by going to the bottom of our homepage at
Under the Fox19 eNews area, click on "What's Up With Weather", type in
your email address and click on "Submit". Gather the family and friends
around the TV set and keep it on FOX 19. We're doing hourly updates
through the afternoon and I will have the latest as the heaviest snow
approaches tonight on the Ten O'Clock News. This is way too much fun!

Have a great day, keep your eyes on the sky and enjoy the changing weather!

Rich Apuzzo :-)

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:37 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] It's beginning to look a lot like...the Christmas blizzard
of 2004

Barb.....I was getting concerned that we hadn't heard from you yet.
Didn't know your work schedule.

Channel 4 out of Columbus is saying that up to 12 inches could fall
today just west of the I-71 corridor. The way their map was, Mansfield
was right on the borderline.

Tommorrow we have to deal with a wind event with all this snow.

Temps starting to fall...18 degrees now with visabilty at .2!

Those pictures out of Dayton on TWC look horrible. Especially since
they don't get that much snow a year.

Liked your picture.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:05 pm
Subject: Another ?

Ok, I know why it is snowing from the direction it is.......why is the
barometer so high with this kind of event?

It's 30.06 and steady at the current time.

I hope you don't mind all the questions. I'm sure other ppl not as
informed would maybe like too know too.

Pam in North Central OH

From: Barb LaPierre  
Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:09 pm
Subject: Re: [WEATHERFUN] Re: [OhioWx] It's beginning to look a lot like...the
Christmas blizzard of 2004


I don't think my boss is going to call me in tonight. It's just too dangerous
out there - I'd have to walk rather than
drive because the streets are so bad. No schools are in session here and our
senior center is closed tomorrow and
Friday for the Christmas holiday - those are the major things that would be
impacted by the storm. I'm looking out
my window right now - St. Paul's churchyard is totally covered again and my
guess is that their choir practice is
cancelled and the library - a block over - is obviously closed. There are very
few cars out, which is a good thing
judging by some of the driving I saw earlier today.

Channel 12 news - - is staying on the air until 7:30 p.m. tonight
with extended storm coverage. The
word is - if you don't absolutely have to go out, don't. While I'm enjoying the
snow and hope to be out there with a
camera tomorrow, I'm glad that it's coming at a time when many people are off
because of Christmas.

We're not used to getting this much snow - our city may have been prepared for a
few inches, but not for this.

Middletown OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:10 pm
Subject: Clermont County, Ohio Snow Report

Hello Group;
A friend of mine in Clermont County, Ohio in the town of Milford has just
reported to me that he has 6.5" of snow in
his yard and it began this morning around 7 a.m. He also tells me they had a
high of 48 yesterday. Also that he's getting
a mix of sleet and snow currently.
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:11 pm
Subject: 22 December, 2004 7:00 PM Snow Report (Corrected)

Date: 22 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 PM
12-Hour Snowfall: 7.3"
24-Hour Snowfall: 7.3"
Storm Total (12 Hours): 7.3"
Snow on Ground: 19"
Remarks: Moderate Snow, 26 degrees F
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County
Corrected for length of storm (12 hours)....

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:19 pm
Subject: Snow Report

Snowfall for the past 12 hours as of 7 p.m. is 5.7 inches with SOG
at 6 inches. Moderate snow with the temperature of 23 degrees at
observation time.

The roads are all snow covered and Wayne County was put under a
Level 2 snow emergency about an hour ago. Many cancellations and
accidents of course. The temperature started out in the mid 20's so
it's been all snow since this started.

Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N
Wayne County

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:24 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] 22 December, 2004 7:00 PM Snow Report

19 inches......impressive.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Snow Report

I heard them say on tv that Wooster had whiteout conditions.

They are running a crawl line and it says......are you
ready............overnight 8-12 MORE inches of snow and at daybreak it
said the winds would start to blow causing drifting and the such.

To keep right on snowing and around noon on Friday be down to flurries.


The natives here in Mansfield say this is like the snows of 30 years ago
that they had all the time before the climate underwent some major

Am signing off for the night unless something big happens
so....GOODNIGHT ALL and catch you in the am.

Pam in North Central OH

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:39 pm
Subject: Snow Data

Date: 22 December 2004
Time of Observation: 7:00 PM
Snowfall past 12-hours: 5.0"
Snowfall past 24- hours: 5.0"
Snow event total (12-hours ): 5.0"
Snow depth at observation: 9"

Remarks: Snow began approximately 8:45 AM this morning

Larry Huff
Munroe Falls 1 SW, Ohio
Summit County

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:59 pm

Total RAINFALL at my home in northwest Hocking County through 10:00 p.m.
been .58". Temperature was around 32 degrees most of the day, then down
to 29 degrees and now is up to 31 degrees. There has been some icing but
there has been NO SNOW!
Jim Fry
Rockbridge 4W
OWON #33

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:57 pm
Subject: evening snow update

At 9pm this evening I measured 8.2 inches of snow so far for this
event, which started just before 9am. A rough visual estimate tells
me that we've had about another inch since then. As of 9pm the snow
depth here is 20 inches. Currently snowing moderately to heavy. THe
temp. has been on a slow rise and is currently 27.9. I'm hoping that
the mixed zone does not make it this far although it is forecast to.

Thompson 5 SW (Northern Geauga Co.)

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:24 pm
Subject: Weather Update

Hello Group;
Here's an update on the current conditions at my station...
Temperature... 34
Humidity ... 91%
Dew Point ... 31
Pressure ... 29.92" and starting to fall rapidly
Winds NE @ 7 G 18
Rainfall since midnight ... 0.52"
NOTES... My sister and her husband had to go to Oberlin for some auto parts
today. They said the trip home took them
several hours when it would have only a little over an hour. They live in New
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:27 pm
Subject: Clermont County Milford, OH Snowfall Update

Hi Group;
I just spoke with my friend down by the Ohio River, a little SE of Cincinnati,
and he tells me they now have 8.5" of
snow on the ground, 2" new since 7:15 p.m., and they are also getting heavy rain
and sleet right now.
Don Keating

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:11 am
Subject: Midnight Storm Update

We have had a total of 12.1" of snow since this began...about 9:00 this morning.
4.8" fell since 7:00 PM and there is
now 24" on the ground. The temperature is 27.3" and has remained within about .5
degrees of that for a couple hours.
The wind seems to be picking up and it is still snowing moderately to
ocassionally heavy. I have not seen anything
mixing in with the snow yet although I understand that will soon happen.
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:54 am
Subject: Summary for the day

Snowfall for the day ended up being 11.2" with 23" on the ground,
about 1" behind Doug at Hambden a few miles away. A few interesting
numbers: This is the third day this month with a double-digit
snowfall total (13th: 14.0", 14th: 13.3", and the 22nd: 11.2").
The 23"depth is a new max. depth for this season, beating the 22" we
acheived on the 15th. We have 59.2" snow for December so far. The
liquid equivelent was 0.84" for the day.

Currently at 12:45am we have heavy snow, temp. has fallen back a
little to 28.0 F, and the wind is NNE at 3mph.

Thompson 5 SW (northern Geauga Co.)

From: "Phillip Higley"  
Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:38 am
Subject: SNOW!!!!!!

Pam & rest of you people that wanted snow...........
Well I have effent to gave everyone, here in PUTNAM, CO..
As of 6:34 p.m., 9.00" & still coming down! Alot of back road's are almost
closed case of blowing & drafting of snow.
Here my at station it's;
Set 18F
Hi 21F
Low 17F
Precip.: .29" (Off of the Davis on top of roof top.)
Putnam, Co.

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:37 am
Subject: I'm in tears!

Franklin Co and Delaware Co just went into a level 3 snow emergency and
that means.....unless things improve drastically, I won't get home for
Christmas with my family.

I burst into tears when I saw it go up.

Don-----your sis is under a BLIZZARD WARNING until noon........the wind
has just begun to howl here in Mansfield.

Us too, I guess. That's what the local station says in their banner
that they have for bad wx.

Level 3 snow emergency means .. you go out you be arrested....emergency
vehicals only.

I hope the residents of Mansfield that voted NO on the bond levy to
help defeat it are happy with their $ for snow

Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:30 am
Subject: Correction

I stand corrected on the fact that Franklin Co in OH is under a level
3......they say only a 2 now.

They are telling ppl to go and clear the drain coverings so that all
their rain can leave the road.

96,000 ppl are with out power in OH and some are in the east end of

Just wait till all that rain freezes....:(

My Mom is in DELAWARE Co. and under a level 3.

The county that borders me (Crawford) is under a level 3. They always
get the really bad situations. Lots of open areas, no populated areas.

Hey..our garbage man made today....hahahaha

WAHOOOOOOOOOOO ( I had to wahoo for that.) I have an image to keep up,
ya know!

We remain under a WINTER STORM and BLIZZARD WARNING till who knows

They say noon on the BLIZZARD WARNING and 7pm on the WINTER STORM

You know you are in trouble when the weather channel names your city in
an event.

Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:36 am
Subject: WORST SINCE '78?

Having read posts about the widespread nature and severity of this
storm I would suggest it is the worst storm since the blizzard of '78
(not worse than or necessarily as bad as, but I don't remember
anything since then like this.)

Locally Hamilton and Butler Counties are now under level 3 snow
emergencies (illegal to be on roads). Conditions range from reports
as high as (unofficially) 30 inches in SE Indiana and reliable 24
inch amounts out there to 17 inches in Harrison, Ohio. There is
close to a foot here but we had sleet most of the night so it is very
high density with a water equivalent of nearly 1.5 inches (I haven't
melted it all down yet). As you go east it's no better. There was
freezing rain for most of the night from Clermont County east with
inches of ice reported and thousands without power.

Even before the level 3 emergency was issued most local roads were
nearly impassable. Trucks are stuck and jack-knifed all over the
interstate system. I-74 is reported to be impassable from Harrison
west into Indiana with hundreds of cars stranded or abandoned.
Indiana State Police have abandoned their cars and are responding to
emergencies in snow plows.

Currently it is 19F here with blowing snow. Snow has mostly tapered
off here but I am truly amazed by this storm. We often try to temper
our forecasts when models kick out the worst case scenario but this
one is everything it was forecast to be.

Ron Rothhaas
Snowbound in Cincinnati

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:56 am
Subject: 23 December, 2004 7:00 AM Snow Report (Corrected)

Date: 23 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 AM
12-Hour Snowfall: 8.4"
24-Hour Snowfall: 15.7"
Storm Total (24 Hours): 15.7"
Snow on Ground: 24"
Remarks: Freezing Rain, 31 Degrees F, Snow changed to freezing rain just after
3:00 AM. Snow depth at that time was
27". The 15.7" of snow fell in about 18 hours.
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County
Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:50 am
Subject: Record snowfall in Middletown OH

This storm is a record breaker! We've officially got 16" of snow here in
Middletown. A Level 3 snow emergency is in effect in Butler and Hamilton
Counties. I'm seeing very few cars on the streets that I can see from my
windows. 30 mph winds are predicted for later today.

Anyone who's left their Christmas shopping until the last minute is out of
luck. And it's going to be interesting to see how long the Level 3 snow
emergency will be in effect. My guess is that many folks won't be going
anywhere for Christmas.

My next door neighbor has a portable carport (metal frame with canvas
roof). It has collapsed because of the weight of the snow. Luckily, there
was no vehicle in it.

Just heard that all Delta flights out of the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky
Airport have been cancelled until 11 a.m.

Middletown OH

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:04 am
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] WORST SINCE '78?

I remember the Blizzard of '78 very well. We were living in West Middletown on a
working farm and the livestock had
to be fed, leading to a few very frightening experiences. The wind was a lot
worse in '78 - I went to feed the chickens
and when I got done I had to really shove the door open because the snow had
drifted up against it it. Plows didn't get
to our area for 5 days.

One of the things that concerns me about this storm is the weight of the
snow/ice mix on roofs, especially flat roofs.
People living in mobile homes around here are having problems with the weight of
the snow and with snow blocking
vents. And my neighbor's portable carport has collapsed, fortunately with no
vehicle under it.

Barb LaPierre
Middletown OH

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:05 am

I am amazed at the sheer magnitude of this. I had 1.42 inches water
through 2230 yesterday. I will post the storm total liquid later.
Storm total snow 10.6 with 8 inches on the ground this AM. The NWS
meteorologist I talked to when I called in my storm total seemed
blown away too that the computer models which had generated over 2
inches liquid had worked out. If you think about it the bulk we have
outside in snow and ice pellets is the equivalent of 20 inches of
snow without the air pockets! The density is so great I walked out
my driveway this morning on top of the ice. It's going to take
forever to dig out and I shoveled 4 times yesterday as late as 9 PM.
Still under level 3 snow emergency.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:59 am
Subject: Last night I had fun... not this morning

Last night at about 7:00 PM I decided it was time to strap on the skis.
(I'm talking cross-country or nordic style.) I tried skiing on the
sidewalks but as you may know depth isn't as important as pack for
nordic skiing. So I ended up going out into the street. Since I am
very out of shape and haven't skiied actively in years, I was pretty
rusty - it took me nearly three hours to ski a 1/2 mile loop (with a 20
minute break talking with a friend.) But... it was fun and nobody ran
over me... I am a little sore today!

This morning's drive was about as bad as it could get without me
getting truly stuck. I drove from West 117th Street down Lorain Ave.
to the Clark entrance to I-90, then I-90 across the bridge to the
Carnegie exit, then Carnegie to East 105th, jog over to Euclid and I
was at work. The following locations were at least partially flooded:
Lorain @ West 110th and West 98th; I-90 at the beginning of the
innerbelt bridge eastbound; I-90 just before the Carnegie exit;
Carnegie @ East 36th, East 70th and East 79th; Euclid @ East 105th.
The sewer improvements under the old Penn tracks on Carnegie seem to
have done the trick; that dip wasn't flooded at all. While on I-90 I
had the benefit of getting a draft off a plow for part of the way,
between Clark and West 41st, which is often the worst part of my drive
because it is so exposed. However, I was only going 30 mph MAX while
out there... Less worried about my ability to control my car than
those around me. I'm pretty good at winter driving (I go and practice
in parking lots at night.)

Best of luck to anyone else out there who has to travel in this mess.
Here's hoping the airport is all cleaned up by Saturday at noon!

Cheers & Merry Christmas,

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:24 am
Subject: Sun just came out!

The sun has just come out here in Middletown. I've only seen one car during
the past hour, a huge SUV going unbelievably fast. Am seeing a few people
brave enough to be out walking in the stuff.

Attached is a picture that I just took of Wall Alley (yup, New York has
Wall St., Middletown has Wall Alley) right behind my house. On the left
side of the photo, about a third of the way up from the bottom, is a mound
which is actually a buried car. Right behind the tree in the center is a
car which apparently died right in the middle of the alley. And I guess
that the folks who own the other two vehicles in the parking lot found
other ways home last night.

Middletown OH

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:31 am
Subject: Storm Report

Hello Group;
While many of you are buried under inches and inches of snow, I am looking out
the window at brown grass, a trace of
flurries dusted it a short time ago, but it's still highly visible. The back
yard on the other hand, well, you don't have to
imagine what it looks like, just scroll down to the photo after reading this e-
Currently we have 30 degrees with a rising barometer at 29.73" and a humidity
reading of 89% along with a dew point
of 27. Winds are from the WNW but my wind speeds have quit registering. I'm
getting fed up with the occasional
problems with the wind equipment with Davis instruments. If I were rich, I
assure you I'd be purchasing a new weather
station from someone other than Davis.
But anyhow, our rainfall total for the event has been 1.91". I measured 0.66"
before midnight and 1.25" after midnight
up til 9 a.m.
Don Keating #106
Newcomerstown 1S

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:29 am
Subject: morning update on the storm

At 7am I measured 6.0" new snow for a storm total so far of 14.2" and
26" on the ground. SOmething I've never seen before: A series of
crevasses (cracks) have formed in the snowpack, similiar to the way
mud cracks as it dries. These crevasses are up to 2" wide at top and
don't seem to go more than a few inches deep. The snow had changed
to freezing rain, I'm not sure about the severety of the icing-it
didn't seem that bad, but I'll see when I go out to strip-mine out
the driveway. This has all changed back over to snow and currently
heavy snow is falling.

Thompson 5 SW (northern Geauga Co.)

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:45 am
Subject: WOW!

SNOW!!! And not in small quantities I must say!!

11.1 inches fell here in Lakewood during the 24-hour period ending at
9 AM!! Even heard thunder shortly before 8 AM! A transition from snow
to sleet seemed to occur shortly before 3 AM. Heavy sleet awoke me
between 3-4 AM and we even had a brief period of freezing rain shortly
before sunrise. The thunder I heard shortly before 8 AM occurred
during the transition from sleet/freezing rain back to snow.

Currently, the snow has tapered off to flurries (as of 10:30 AM) and
the temperature is 28 degrees. We got up to freezing (32 degrees) at
4:46 AM. Radar is showing the bulk of the precipitation from the
"storm" to be moving out towards PA, just a small band of light snow
moving through the central lakeshore area at this time.

I've uploaded a pix in the "Photos" link showing the snow here at
Lakewood. The pix in located under a folder titled "Lakewood-Matt


Pam, thanks for the post concerning care for our pets in this weather.
Shamus, my weather "hound" (literally), normally loves the snow but
seemed a bit overwelmed by it this morning! Barney, my border collie;
however, was absolutely thrilled! The snow was literally almost over
Shamus's head and body! I had to spend about 45 minutes this morning
to shovel paths in the backyard for them to roam :).


Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:57 am
Subject: Storm totals for Mansfield

Don't have a clue what the storm totals are because of the freezing rain
that fell over night made it all one big crust of snow.


I stuck my yard stick in the huge snow drift that keeps my apt. door
from opening all the way, and it just bounced off. LOL

I did see that we have 3 inches since it turned back over to snow around
7 am.

It's stopped snowing but blowing a drifting are a problem.

We've been downgraded to a WINTER WX ADVISORY......

THIS IS GREAT, but it's time to quit so I can salvage Christmas.

My kind neighbor is going to shovel me out in about an hour. She heard
me out their shreiking OMG!!!!!!!!!!


Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:05 am
Subject: Snow!!!

Snow!!! and not in small quantities I must say!

11.1 inches for the 24-hour period ending at 9 AM! Even heard thunder
shortly before 8 AM. Heavy sleet awoke me between 3-4 AM. We even
had a brief period of freezing rain shortly before sunrise. The
thunder I heard shortly before 8 AM was during the transition from
sleet/freezing rain back to snow.

Currently (as of 9:45 AM) we have moderate snow and blowing snow
(visibility 1/2 mile) and a temperature of 28 degrees. We got up to
freezing (32 degrees) at 4:46 AM.

I've attached a photo of our snow here in a folder titled
"Lakewood-Matt Higgins" under the Photo link.

ENJOY!! But be very careful out there!!


Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:19 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Snowfall Reports from the NWS

Ah........13 inches at the airport......I'm waaaaaay far away from that!

I'm up over my knee....18 inches

Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:50 pm
Subject: MEdina Co.

Finally shoveled over to the snow board. 13" storm total with 8" at 6p.m. last
night and 5" overnight.
Brunswick 2NE

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:56 pm

Below is the morning cooperative observer report. An additional
official observation in Liberty, Union Co., Indiana: 31 inches! Also
major ice storm with major widespread damage east of Cincinnati. 1-2
inch ice accumulation in Bethel, Ohio. Severe tree damage. 40,000
without power in Clermont county. Shelters have been set up. Level
3 emergency to expire in Hamilton county at 2 PM.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:55 pm
Subject: 23 December, 2004 7:00 PM Snow Report

Date: 23 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 PM
12-Hour Snowfall: 1.2"
24-Hour Snowfall: 9.6"
Storm Total (36 Hours): 16.9"
Snow on Ground: 22"
Remarks: flurries, 21 degrees F
December 2004 Snowfall: 56.0"
Season Snowfall: 57.5"
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

From: "Phillip Higley"  
Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:57 pm
Subject: snow deapth

I talk with Ray Burkholder of Pandora this afternoon & he had 11" of snowfall.
He is 5.5 miles to the S.S.E. from my reporting station.
I measure 7.5", but that was a ave. snowfall...
Alot of blowing of snow & it's hard to measure.
Right now it's 15F
Hi was 22F
Low so far been 14F
Winds out of the SW-7 M.P.H.
Putnam, Co

Date: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:02 pm

Total melted storm total 2.24 inches with 10.7 inches snow and
sleet. Incredible density to snow pack and the consistency of ball
bearings making travel without chains or 4 wheel drive on unplowed
streets impossible. Huge piles from plows. Almost impossible to
shovel. Driveways covered with thick hard icy snow which must be
chopped up to remove. I spent all day on a 75 foot drive and am not
done. Sleet poured off my roof all night leaving piles to nearly 3
feet around the foundation. AC condenser a giant marshmallow today.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 1:55 am
Subject: snowfall update for 12-23-04

Snowfall for today was 5.2" for a storm total of 16.4" along with
about 1/8" freezing rain ice. Maximum snow depth reached 26". The
monthly total is now 64.4" and the seasonal total is 67.3".

Thompson 5 SW (nothern Geauga Co.)

Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:54 am
Subject: 24 December, 2004 7:00 AM Snow Report

Date: 24 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 AM
12-Hour Snowfall: 2.0"
24-Hour Snowfall: 3.2"
Storm Total (48 Hours): 18.9"
Snow on Ground: 24"
Remarks: mostly cloudy, 9 degrees F
December 2004 Snowfall: 58.0"
Season Snowfall: 59.5"
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:11 am
Subject: Beautiful winter morning!

Awoke to beautiful sunshine this morning and a crisp morning low of 9
degrees. It's currently 11 degrees @ 9:08 AM.

Had a dusting of snow overnight (0.2 inch) from lake-effect snow
showers and flurries.

Seasonal snowfall to date: 19.0 inches

Happy Holidays!

Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:44 am
Subject: Morning OBS Middletown OH

Good morning, everyone.

The sun is shining very brightly this morning, but looks are certainly
deceptive. I'm getting a reading of 9.3 degrees on my little heat island,
but the Butler County airport in Hamilton is showing -5 degrees and at
Dayton South Airport in Springboro, it's 1 lonely degree.

I live in an area where there are many churches and I I'm really surprised
that I'm not seeing any snowplow activity yet. I haven't heard of any
Christmas eve services being cancelled. There is a lot of black ice out
there, though - my scanner is really hopping - people travelling too fast
for the road conditions.

Will have to get out a bit later and shovel out my van - am not looking
forward to it.

Middletown OH

Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:42 am
Subject: Digging out!

Woke to the sounds of ppl digging out their snow/ice covered cars.

A Columbus station puts Mansfields snow total from this storm at 23
inches. We have had 28.7 inches for the month.

Current temp is 0 with forcasted lows on

Christmas morn to be -10. Just a tad bit cool. hahahahaha

Still under a level 2 snow emergency and the counties that had level 3's
are now #2.

It may take an hour for the car to defrost but I'm outta here!!!!!


When I get to Delaware Co (Mom's) will post conditions. She just called
and said everything is covered with ice.

Seasons Greetings everyone!

Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:47 pm

My most recent posting from my home in northwest Hocking County was at
midnight Wednesday night when I reported the Wednesday rainfall as .68".
During that night the electric power went out so I had no heat, no light
and no water. However, in my very cold house I did have a flashlight. The
total rainfall from midnight to around dawn on Thursday was 1.09" for a
storm total of 1.77". While that 1.09" rain was falling from midnight to
around dawn the temperature fell from 31 into the low 20s. Snowfall
amounted to only 3/10 of an inch. The heavy weight of the ice toppled a
large pine tree onto my driveway.
Jim Fry
Rockbridge 4W
OWON #33

Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:23 pm
Subject: Wooster 7N and Wayne County

Just got done going through 80+ emails since the power has been back
on. Phone service is still sporadic.

I received 8.7 inches of snow with snow falling until about 1 a.m.
Thursday. Then the real trouble began. The snow changed to freezing
rain then and lasted for about six hours. Power and phone service
went out about 5 a.m. Tree damage and electric down all over the
place. Ice thickness in general was from 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick. We
had no heat or power here from 5 a.m. until 7 p.m. Thursday.
Thousands still without power in Wayne and Holmes counties. There
are three power companies that service the area and all of them
saying that some of their customers may not be up and running until
after Christmas day. We were able to go to one of the few
restaurants still open to get a hot meal but they only had a limited
menu. Have a hunch this may be one of the more costly storms for
Ohio weather-wise and business-wise being just before Christmas.

There is no comparison with this storm to the Blizzard of 78 as far
as I'm concerned where sustained winds of 50-60 m.p.h. occured. I
think storms like this make many of us stop and think of all the
conveniances we have now compared to our ancestors. There was one
guy on the news just complaining about all the things that were'nt
working non of which he couldn't handle anyway. I'm sitting there
saying "Chill out dude!"

Have a good holiday and give yourself some stress relief.


Date: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:01 pm
Subject: OMG!

It took me an hour to go 4 miles in Mansfield today!

I was a nervous wreck by the time I got to my Mom's in Delaware Co.

On Rt 3, there was a four wheel drive in a ditch stratling a wire fence. Not

Got here and everything looks so pretty covered with ice.

Nothing but a sheet of ice .. some of it had ruts made by traffic.

My little girlfriend (six years old) is one of the 166,000 homes with no

She's upset that since she is staying at her Grandpa's.....that Santa won't find

Ron----she's my China doll.

Got to run...

Gotta run.......

Date: Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:24 pm
Subject: Most Memorable Weather Event -- 2004

Hello Group;
I'd say the most memorable weather event here in Newcomerstown, Ohio, in my
opinion, were the rains we received
from the remnants of Hurricane Frances. In a 24 hour period on September 7-8 I
measured 4.73" of rain, establishing a
new 24 hour record for my station. Storm total from Frances September 7-9 was
5.56". September saw 7.67" of
raionfall here in Newcomerstown and that helped break my stations record annual
precipitation total. I have recorded
57.80" of precipitation for 2004 through December 25th and the shatters the
previous annaul record of 50.91" in 1981.
Don Keating
Skywarn Spotter ID TU-093
Newcomerstown, Ohio
Tuscarawas County

Date: Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:37 pm
Subject: Some Power ON

The newscaster said that half of the homes that have sat in the dark lately,
have juice.

The # without is down to 86,000 as crews from far away as TX came to help.

Mansfield saw a low of -15 this morning and Findley saw -17.

I will be going back to Mansfield. It's a balmy 24 degrees, after a morning low
of 0 here in Delaware Co.


Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:41 am
Subject: final event tally

Merry Christmas, everyone, one day late. The final event tally from
that storm, including lake-effect afterthoughts was 18.9" and 1/8"
freezing rain ice in the middle. The snow depth reached 26" at max
and that freezing rain soaked into the snow, turning it into the
consistency of wet cement, or mud-very heavy. When the snowplow
threw that heavy stuff aside, the wieght of the flying snow knocked
all the mailboxes down, including mine! The snowblower wouldn't do
it all at once. I had to clear the drive in 2 layers. We often get
large snowfalls (this wasn't even our largest storm of the season so
far-that was the evening of the 12th-15th with 30.3" total), but it
is unsusal for there to be so much snow of heavy consistency.

The next event has already started, although not forcast to be nearly
so exciting. We had 1.4" this morning as of 9am. This makes our
monthly total at 68.2" and a seasonal total of 71.1".


Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 2:48 pm
Subject: Slowly But Surely

We ended up having guests (children and their families) staying
longer than expected but all took it in stride. Our daughter and her
family ended up staying Thursday through most of Christmas day
because of no power. They ended up bringing their cat over Christmas
Eve night because we didn't think it would make it another night
without heat. Good thing since it got down to -16 about 4 a.m.
Christmas morning. They live in a mobile home so they don't have
much in the way of insulation to keep what heat there was inside.
Son-in-law said it was 32 degrees inside then. He and our younger
son went back over yesterday (Christmas Day) when they heard the
power was back on to see if they had any busted pipes but everything
appeared to hold. They have a small aquarium tank our one grandson
keeps his turtle in and it had enough of a layer of ice on top that
my son-in-law had to use a knife to break through the top.

Another one of our sons and his family ended up staying with us last
night since they wer without power since Thursday morning also. They
just left after our place after having their power restored just
before noon today (Sunday).

Power companies said this morning there still could be some people
without power until the middle of the week. Still a lot of ice on

Stay warm and watch for falling ice.

Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N

Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:16 pm
Subject: Re: [OhioWx] Most Memorable Weather Event -- 2004

Most memorable for me was this recent snow event. Gosh......then the
rains from Ivan. I the Ivan event had been snow...........LOL

Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:21 pm
Subject: Kristen.....Columbus OH

Columbus is one big skating rink. They had snow, one inch of rain then
more snow.

Still thousands without power.

There was a huge fatal wreck at I-71 and 17th ave. and 3 ppl were
killed. There was alcohol involved.

Next Saturdays forcasted high is 60 degrees.

It is absolutly insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 3:34 pm
Subject: I-71 conditions

Traffic was stopped going south into Columbus.

I saw a car that had just slid off the road and he was on his cell,
hopefully calling for help.

The more north you got, the worse it got.

The second you got into Richland Co. it started snowing. (nothing new)
In one stretch of highway between the 1st and 2nd Mansfield exit, I
counted 4 cars in the median, including the one that just happened.

Well, I wasn't going to put myself thru what I went thru on Friday, so I
went to the 4th Mansfield the Rt 30 exit.

The closer you got to Mansfield, the worse it got.

The actual city is still covered in ice on the roads.

They had shoveled the walk and the drive was noticably clean from snow,
but still covered.

You know you are in trouble when you can walk on 23 inches of snow and
not sink in due to the ice.

Going to be around 50 the end of the coming week.


Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:00 pm
Subject: Road Conditions Middletown OH

I just got back from the grocery - my first foray out into the world since
the storm hit on Wednesday. My parking lot is a mess - snow was piled up
behind our cars. After I tried to move my van and it refused, I got out and
shoveled - and shoveled - and shoveled.

The streets are a mess - only our beltway and state routes are clear except
for the turn lanes. The rest of the streets - you're taking your chances.
The city fathers and mothers are saying the streets are passable - well,
that's if you say a prayer and don't mind driving with your heart in your
mouth. Marsh's is only a couple of miles away from my home - I left here at
12:30 p.m. and got back just in time to hear the two minute warning for the
second quarter of the Bengals/Giants game. Now I know why my boss got a
call form our former police chief/now city manager to put up a notice
asking residents to please be patient.

The grocery is just about of everything - bread shelves are almost bare,
not much milk, veggies sparse, etc. They told me that they might have more
ice melting salt tomorrow. The chain stores are out of snowblowers,
shovels, salt, also.

Barb LaPierre
Middletown OH

Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:06 pm
Subject: 26 December, 2004 7:00 PM Snow Report

Date: 26 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 PM
12-Hour Snowfall: 2.9"
24-Hour Snowfall: 3.5"
Storm Total (48 Hours): 3.5"
Snow on Ground: 24"
Remarks: light snow, 23 degrees F
December 2004 Snowfall: 61.5"
Season Snowfall: 63.0"
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

From: Chris Morris  
Date: Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:12 pm
Subject: Ice Storm

Amazing reading all your accounts, although I wish I
could have during the actual storm. I was without
electricity from Wednesday (10:00 PM) till Friday
(12:00 PM). Only got Internet access back about 24
hours ago. Only a dusting of snow here, but I was
ground-zero for the ice. The storm started as
freezing rain/sleet on Wednesday (2:00 PM) and
continue till Thursday (11:00 AM). In total I
received an amazing 1.72" of precipitation, most which
feel as freezing rain. Everything was covered with
.5" - 1" of ice. On
Wednesday night, I could hear the tree branches
breaking. The worst ice storm I have seen for several
years, and there are still thousands without power.

I set up an image gallery of some damage from my
yard(this is small stuff, there are many large trees
(+2' diameter) down.

Date: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:53 am
Subject: 27 December, 2004 7:00 AM Snow Report

Date: 27 December, 2004
Time of Observation: 7 AM
12-Hour Snowfall: 1.6"
24-Hour Snowfall: 4.5"
Storm Total (36 Hours): 5.1"
Snow on Ground: 24"
Remarks: mostly clear, 3 degrees F
December 2004 Snowfall: 63.1"
Season Snowfall: 64.6"
Doug Brady
Hambden Township
Northern Geauga County

Date: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:45 am

Still a level 2 snow emergency here in Richland Co.

All the snow removal has been salt/brine or nothing. Trucks going
around with blades UP.

Am debating on what to do about my doc appt on "traffic alley" that it
took me one hour to go four miles.

WARM UP the 50's. Almost tropical.

Currently 10 degrees and brilliant sunshine. I just was out feeding
the birds and it isn't really that bad.

Oh, in India where the quake struck.....heavy rains are falling making
rescue and recovery very hard.

Pam---buried in a snow drift somewhere in North Central OH

Date: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:22 pm
Subject: another snow report

At my 5:30am report, I had recieved 1.1" snow since 8pm yesterday for
an event total of 6.2". Not a bad tally from a forcast of an inch,
but a mere flurry compared to the three monstrous storms we've had so
far this month. This brings the monthly total to 73.1" and the
seasonal amount to 76.0".

Thompson 5 SW (northern Geauga Co.)

Date: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:07 am

It has been an amazingly wintery week down here. I become more
convinced with the more I see that this ranks as one of the most
significant non-lake effect winter storm events in Ohio since the
blizzard of 78. Here we are the better part of a week after the
storm and whole lanes on sections of the interstates are still
covered. Most interstate shoulders have 2 to as much as 6 feet on
them. Since the ice and snow have hardened with the week's cold the
city has resorted to sending a backhoe around to clear and widen
traffic lanes since conditions are beyond the abilities of a plow
(this is rather cumbersome since Cincinnati has 2,000 lane miles of
streets). There are yards on a nearby street where 10 feet of snow
has been piled! Many 4 lane city streets remain at 1 lane in each
direction with the other lanes covered by piles of rock hard ice and
snow. Our residential street finally has a clear lane down the
middle. It has been salted and plowed daily. However, there is a
mass of 1 to 4 feet of snow on either side of the clear lane so
passing is fun.

Again, we had 2.42 inches of liquid content in the snow so we have
the equivalent mass of 24 inches of snow to move. Business parks and
shopping centers have huge mounds 10 to 15 feet high and still are
losing many parking spots.

Today the warm-up kicks into gear. It was 19F last night but is
forecast to rise to 38F this afternoon then into the low 40's
tomorrow. This should be interesting. I have yet to see a clear
catch basin anywhere and we have 2.42 inches of water frozen out
there (think of the water content in one of those 15 foot piles!).
Moisture will begin working into the pattern so drizzle and freezing
drizzle may develop tonight and tomorrow as well as industrial
stregnth fog. The ark project commences this afternoon. If you see
Noah tell him to stop by.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: lack of tsunami warning

Remember in many cases these are poor third world countries. We
don't always appreciate how blessed we are in this country.
Hurricanes such as hit Florida this summer no longer kill thousands
and tornadoes no longer kill hundreds. US population keeps going up
yet casualties go down. That is no accident.

When I hear that just a few years ago orphans such as the one we plan
to adopt from China were left in rooms to die I realize just how far
ahead the US is of the rest of the world. While we complain when it
takes a few days to clear huge amounts of snow (and those complaints
may be legitimate) look at the misery and tradgedy faced by those in
other parts of the world. Would a tsunami warning system have saved
lives? You bet. Can you really expect such a thing from such
countries? No. During this Christmas season thank the good Lord
that we are so blessed.

Ron Rothhaas

Date: Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:55 pm

Conditions here in Middletown are abysmal, Ron. Our beltway has two thru lanes open, but the turn lanes haven't been
plowed, and worse, there are huge piles of snow at intersections making it very difficult to see. Many of our side streets
are pure ice. I live about two blocks away from where I work ( and it took me almost 20
minutes to walk to work this morning. The alley behind our building - where our loading docks are located - hasn't been

I went grocery shopping on Monday. What usually is a 45 minute trip took me two hours. We would still be snowed in
here if the guys who plowed the churchyards behind my house hadn't cleared the alley so that church members could
get out easily.

Barb LaPierre
Middletown OH

A state of emergency was declared in Butler County earlier today.

Date: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:53 am
Subject: Snow Eater

Between the warm temps and rain overnite the snow depth in general
is gone; not enough in coverage to be considered a trace. Still had
four inches yesterday morning.

People still without power since last Thursday has been the real
problem. The poles and/or wires still down are in locations where
there are no access roads or accessible by a truck because of them
getting stuck in mud and snow. I've had a few sporadic outages of an
hour or less since the "long one". Trees have really taken a beating.

Jack Sisler
Wooster 7N
Wayne County

Date: Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:06 am
Subject: Mild and Rainy

Northeast Ohio winter weather..forever changing. Outside of the snow
piles created from the clean-up work from the big winter storm we had
Christmas week, there is very little additional evidence outside that
points to the fact that we had nearly a foot of snow on Dec. 22nd and
23rd. Very spring-like conditions this morning. Currently (as of 9:30
AM) we have a temperature of 48 degrees (thanks to my trusty window
thermometer), with rain falling (observed thanks to my trusty eyes).
Had 0.18 inch of rain last night as indicated by my trusty rain gauge.
The current snow depth has now gone to zero with the only snow
remaining on the ground associated with the piles from the clean-up

Forecast high temperature today is near 55! Rumors are indicating
that similar warmth may occur again Sunday (Jan. 2nd) and again
perhaps this upcoming Wednesday (Jan. 5th). Glancing at the GFS this
morning, it doesn't look like any arctic intrusions of consequence are
expected into the eastern U.S. through at least Jan. 10th! A "mild"
winter this year? Ya know, it might just happen...


From: "Phillip Higley"  
Date: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:30 pm
Subject: Spring or winter??

Boy it sure feel like early spring then early winter.
Right now 95% of the snowfall we had last week is gone.
The outside temperature is 55F with a SSW wind blowing at 15 M.P.H., going
up to 25 M.P.H..
That is our Hi so far for today..
After a morning low of 47F.
We did pick up 0.06" of rainfall during the night.
Putnam, Co.
Wanting for spring to come...

Date: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:37 pm
Subject: From the NY Times: 'Hobbyists Fill Out the Weather Map'


From the NY Times "Technology" Section

'Hobbyists Fill Out the Weather Map'

December 30, 2004

GREG TRUTA works long hours as an accountant, but that
hasn't stopped him from developing a sideline as the
neighborhood weatherman in Broomfield, Colo., a suburb of

Mr. Truta, 33, was so fascinated by the weather moving off
of the Front Range of the Rocky Mountains that he mounted a
personal weather station in his backyard to monitor it.
Soon he decided to share his data by posting it online. He
connected his instruments to a computer and began uploading
live readings, along with National Weather Service
forecasts and even a Webcam view of the mountains to his
Web site,

His site has become a resource for those in his area and
beyond, logging more than 98,000 page views in the last 18
months. "I've gotten e-mails from all over Colorado, even
on the East Coast," he said. For those hooked on Broomfield
weather, Mr. Truta offers an e-mail system that sends out
weather updates three times a day.

His audience includes professional meteorologists, like
those at Denver's ABC affiliate, KMGH, who have used his
station data in their forecasts. "They told me they needed
a temperature for northwest Denver, and were using my
temperatures on the 5 o'clock news," he said.

Mr. Truta is not alone. Thousands of armchair sky watchers
are pairing computers and consumer-grade meteorological
equipment to share their observations of local conditions
online. Posted on personal Web sites or community weather
pages, the data is helping neighbors and beginning to have
a larger impact on meteorology, by shaping a more detailed
view of weather patterns than was previously available.

"We use those reports," said Mike Nelson, KMGH's chief
meteorologist. "It's been useful for television to get more
reports from all kinds of locales, compared to just the
airport. The old joke goes, no one lives out there."

Even without building Web sites, backyard meteorologists
can contribute to the professional weather world. They can
send their data to a number of organizations that aggregate
the information and post it online.

One such group that has achieved official recognition is
the Citizen Weather Observer Program (, an
association of weather watchers who collect information,
share it online, and forward it to outlets like the
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's giant
pool of freely available weather research data, the
Meteorological Assimilation Data Ingest System. Information
from 1,900 of the 4,000 personal weather stations
registered with the observer program makes its way to the
National Weather Service forecast offices, the Kennedy
Space Center, the National Center for Atmospheric Research
and university research programs, among other destinations.

"The data goes to 80 percent of the weather forecast
offices in the U.S.," said Russ Chadwick, the senior
engineer for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration's forecast systems laboratory in Boulder,
Colo., and volunteer administrator of the citizen observer
program's network.

"It's helpful in places where there are fewer official data
points, and where we have quite a number of stations," he
said. "The conventional weather network might have 70
kilometers between observations, and sometimes we have
stations in those areas that are just 10 kilometers apart."

James Scarlett is a weather professional who takes
advantage of the observer program's network. As the warning
coordination meteorologist for the National Weather Service
in Billings, Mont., Mr. Scarlett was in a position to
recognize the shortage of official observations from the
southeastern part of the state. He mobilized amateur radio
operators to collect weather data around Forsyth, a rural
town where there were no official weather stations.

Now, information from nearly a dozen personal weather
stations channels into, an affiliate of the
observer program for amateur band broadcasters, and Mr.
Scarlett can analyze the data before issuing weather alerts
and wildfire warnings for the northern Rockies.

"We've always struggled to get information from out there,
and it's been great," Mr. Scarlett said. "The more data we
get from the field, the better our forecasting."

A number of other Web sites collect personal weather
station information and offer it online for use by amateur
and professional meteorologists. and members share
personal weather data, which is displayed alongside
official reports in a series of interactive state maps.

They will be joined next year by WeatherBug, an
advertising-supported software program that, its publishers
say, is installed on over seven million desktops.
WeatherBug plans to augment data collected from its network
of 7,000 school-based weather stations with personal
weather data in early 2005. Seventy-seven TV stations use
WeatherBug data on neighborhood conditions in their local
weather reporting.

The neighborhood reports have helped meteorologists like
Justin Derk, of WMAR-TV in Baltimore, zero in on difficult
forecasts like predicting the often vague rain and snow
lines during winter storms.

"I was able to pick up four stations and see a temperature
difference between the north and south side, and draw that
line," he said. "For the people watching us that day,
knowing what street they live on, we were nailing precisely
who was getting rain and who was getting snow."

Perhaps the most popular site for budding meteorologists is
Weather Underground ( For nearly
three years, the site has allowed weather watchers to add
their stations to a growing regional list. Weather
Underground reports a worldwide membership of 12,092
personal weather stations; more than 3,200 provide daily
uploads to the site.

For some hobbyists, monitoring the weather means more than
merely predicting fair skies or foul.

One volunteer in the observer program, David Helms, a
National Weather Service scientist in Silver Spring, Md.,
who also operates a personal weather station, became
interested in the hobby for national security reasons.

"I joined C.W.O.P. soon after Sept. 11, 2001," he said.
"There were lots of reports of terrorists wanting to use
crop-dusters to spread chemical and biological agents, so I
started researching how one could contribute weather data
that might help with urban dispersion forecasts."

Regardless of how it is used, the personal weather data
displayed on these sites provides a perceived element of
control over something technology has yet to master.
Despite meteorologists' efforts, there is only so much they
can do about the weather.

"We have the couch-potato philosophy on storm chasing," Mr.
Helms said. "You don't chase it. It chases you."

At least amateur analysts have the satisfaction of knowing
that their on-demand information is often more up to date
and more adaptable than what is available through
traditional news sources.

"Why let the TV man control the graphics?" Mr. Helms said.
"You can control the data right from your couch."

Date: Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:40 pm
Subject: #'s

As of yesterday noon, per Channel 8 in Cleveland, only 10,000 homes
don't have powered restored.

Mainly out in the boonies. He mentioned Millersburg, which is in Holmes
Co. To my EAST.

Pam in North Central OH


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